Confused about the CE block code info on my 67 BB.

[Domenic T.]

Re: Confused about the CE block code info on my 67 BB.

It's almost 8PM here and I just got back from the shop . Took some pics of the CE, and it seems to have a space after the E, CE 51463. Bet they didn't hit the stamp hard enough because I think there should have been a number there.
Now to get the pics on here will take some help from family with smart phone.

Dom

[Duke W.]

Re: Confused about the CE block code info on my 67 BB.

Rich - are you sure? Note that this partial engine assembly was for '62-'65 SHP/FI with mechanical lifters; '62-'63 originally had a Duntov cam and '64-'65 the 30-30. Not long after the LT-1 engine option was introduced for the 1970 MY the 30-30 cam disappeared from service parts, and the LT-1 cam was substituted for prior 30-30 applications. The Duntov cam continued to be available into the eighties.

I don't know for sure, and the only way to know is to do a lobe lift check, but I bet your CE block has a LT-1 cam. One clue would be to check your 2-71 P&A catalog for what mechanical lifter cams are shown and the respective applications.

Duke

[Richard F.]

Re: Confused about the CE block code info on my 67 BB.

Cams-#s.jpgDuke, here is the listing in my parts book, it list both the Duntov cam (3736097) & LT1 cam (3972178). When I ordered the short block I asked for a 1963 Fuelie spec. short block and I can't say for sure exactly what the internals are. I still have this motor sitting in a solid axle car it has about 2,000 mi. on the clock. I could possibly check it out in the spring but for now it's buried in the back corner of my shop.
Rich

Rich - are you sure? Note that this partial engine assembly was for '62-'65 SHP/FI with mechanical lifters; '62-'63 originally had a Duntov cam and '64-'65 the 30-30. Not long after the LT-1 engine option was introduced for the 1970 MY the 30-30 cam disappeared from service parts, and the LT-1 cam was substituted for prior 30-30 applications. The Duntov cam continued to be available into the eighties.

I don't know for sure, and the only way to know is to do a lobe lift check, but I bet your CE block has a LT-1 cam. One clue would be to check your 2-71 P&A catalog for what mechanical lifter cams are shown and the respective applications.

Duke

[Duke W.]

Re: Confused about the CE block code info on my 67 BB.

It's interesting that the 2-71 P & A catalog still shows the 30-30 cam as available. As far as asking the dealer to order a '63 spec FI shortblock there was only one part number for '62-'65, which saw the use of two different camshafts, and the dealer had no control over what camshaft GM installed.

My bet is still that it's the LT-1 cam, and if you ever get a change, a gross lobe lift check on an inlet lobe with a dial indicator will yield the answer.

Duntov .263"
LT-1 .306"
30-30 .323"

Duke

[Joe L.]

Re: Confused about the CE block code info on my 67 BB.

It's interesting that the 2-71 P & A catalog still shows the 30-30 cam as available. As far as asking the dealer to order a '63 spec FI shortblock there was only one part number for '62-'65, which saw the use of two different camshafts, and the dealer had no control over what camshaft GM installed.

My bet is still that it's the LT-1 cam, and if you ever get a change, a gross lobe lift check on an inlet lobe with a dial indicator will yield the answer.

Duntov .263"
LT-1 .306"
30-30 .323"

Duke

Duke------


The GM #3849346 was discontinued in December, 1971 and replaced by the GM #3972178. So, the 3849346 would still have appeared in a P&A catalog dated 2/71. It is virtually certain, though, that the manufacture of the 3849346 ended well prior to its discontinuation. Parts are usually not discontinued from SERVICE until the last one is out of the last GM warehouse stocking the part.

[Domenic T.]

Re: Confused about the CE block code info on my 67 BB.

Rich,
Still trying to get the pic .

Dom

[Joe L.]

Re: Confused about the CE block code info on my 67 BB.

It's interesting that the 2-71 P & A catalog still shows the 30-30 cam as available. As far as asking the dealer to order a '63 spec FI shortblock there was only one part number for '62-'65, which saw the use of two different camshafts, and the dealer had no control over what camshaft GM installed.

My bet is still that it's the LT-1 cam, and if you ever get a change, a gross lobe lift check on an inlet lobe with a dial indicator will yield the answer.

Duntov .263"
LT-1 .306"
30-30 .323"

Duke

Duke------


There were several iterations of this short block. Originally, it was GM #3816571. This version, released about 1963, must have included the Duntov cam since no other SHP mechanical lifter cam existed at that time.

The above was discontinued in November, 1966 and replaced by GM #3893615. This version could have included either the Duntov or the 3849346.

The above was discontinued in July, 1967 and replaced by GM #3912319. This version could have included either the Duntov or 3849346.

The above was discontinued in August, 1968 and replaced by the GM #3737293. This version could also have included either the Duntov or 3849346. It could not have included the 3972178 since that cam did not exist at the time of its release.

The above was discontinued in February, 1972 and replaced by the 3970166. The latter almost certainly included the GM #3972178 cam as the GM #3849346 was likely out-of-production at this time.

[Duke W.]

Re: Confused about the CE block code info on my 67 BB.

You read my mind, Joe. I was going to ask you about the evolution of the '62-'65 SHP/FI 327 mechanical lifter short block.

"The above was discontinued in February, 1972 and replaced by the 3970156. The latter almost certainly included the GM #3972178 cam as the GM #3849346 was likely out-of-production at this time."


I assume you meant 3970166 as shown on the invoice and parts catalog page image in Richard's post #12, however, the invoice is clearly dated 6-11-71, but you stated that it wasn't released until 2-72.


In any event, the fact 3970166 was the last iteration of this short block is near definitive evidence that they must have had the LT-1 cam.

Duke

[Joe L.]

Re: Confused about the CE block code info on my 67 BB.

You read my mind, Joe. I was going to ask you about the evolution of the '62-'65 SHP/FI 327 mechanical lifter short block.

"The above was discontinued in February, 1972 and replaced by the 3970156. The latter almost certainly included the GM #3972178 cam as the GM #3849346 was likely out-of-production at this time."


I assume you meant 3970166 as shown on the invoice and parts catalog page image in Richard's post #12, however, the invoice is clearly dated 6-11-71, but you stated that it wasn't released until 2-72.


In any event, the fact 3970166 was the last iteration of this short block is near definitive evidence that they must have had the LT-1 cam.

Duke

Duke----


I totally blew it on this one. It turns out that the historical perspective I presented above is, indeed, the history of the GM #3970156 which was a non SHP 327 short block. Disregard it unless one is interested in the history of the non SHP 327. The history of the GM #3970166 is as follows:

GM #3816522-----1962 released SHP mechanical lifter short block. I cannot find any record of supersession or discontinuation. It just "disappeared". This assembly certainly included the Duntov cam;

GM #3816573-----1963 released SHP short block. It appeared for the first time in late 1964 P&A catalogs for 1962-64 SHP SERVICE. I can find no record of supersession or discontinuation. It almost certainly included the Duntov cam.

GM #3832215-----another "mystery". I cannot find that it was ever cataloged for a Corvette. If it was, it was so-cataloged for a very short period of time. Probably released sometime in 1964. It was discontinued from SERVICE in July, 1965 and replaced by GM #3857615. May have included either the Duntov or 3849346 cam. Discontinued in July, 1965 and replaced by GM #3857615;

GM #3857615-----released in 1965 and likely included GM #3849346 camshaft. Discontinued in January, 1971 and replaced by GM #3970166;

GM #3970166-----almost certainly included GM #3972178 cam. Discontinued in May, 1979 and replaced by GM #465208.

GM #465208--- discontinued without supersession in 1980.

[Rick H.]

Re: Confused about the CE block code info on my 67 BB.

Here is another pad stamping that does not fit the convention discussed here. The picture below is of the pad on the replacement 327 engine in my '67. I spoke to the 2nd owner of my car who told me that he purchased this engine in 1977 directly from Chevrolet and had it shipped to him in Florida. The engine block casting number is 3959512 and the block date code is K 30 6 (Nov 30, 1976). It has 350HP spec heads (3991492 casting numbers) along with a cast iron intake (casting number 3960364).Both the heads and intake have 1976 date codes).

The pad stamping is E7P25852?7C. I was expecting to see a CE prefix, but the first character I can see is an E. After the E is a 7, which I assume represents 1977 when it was likely assembled. After the 7 is a P, which I have no idea what it represents.

[Dan A.]

Re: Confused about the CE block code info on my 67 BB.

I believe the CE program ended before 1977. I do not know what if anything took it's place.

[Joe L.]

Re: Confused about the CE block code info on my 67 BB.

I believe the CE program ended before 1977. I do not know what if anything took it's place.

Dan------


I can say this for sure. I bought a 350-300 complete short block from Chevrolet in 1975. The stamp pad had no stampings whatsoever.

[Dan A.]

Re: Confused about the CE block code info on my 67 BB.

I had the same experience in the same time frame. 1975

[Mark F.]

Re: Confused about the CE block code info on my 67 BB.

Here is another pad stamping that does not fit the convention discussed here. The picture below is of the pad on the replacement 327 engine in my '67. I spoke to the 2nd owner of my car who told me that he purchased this engine in 1977 directly from Chevrolet and had it shipped to him in Florida. The engine block casting number is 3959512 and the block date code is K 30 6 (Nov 30, 1976). It has 350HP spec heads (3991492 casting numbers) along with a cast iron intake (casting number 3960364).Both the heads and intake have 1976 date codes).

The pad stamping is E7P25852?7C. I was expecting to see a CE prefix, but the first character I can see is an E. After the E is a 7, which I assume represents 1977 when it was likely assembled. After the 7 is a P, which I have no idea what it represents.

Hi Rick,
Hmmm...interesting. I'm no stamp expert, but it looks like two separate stampings to me - different fonts, or maybe just different font sizes? - but the two stamps don't appear to have been put on at the same time? Or at least, if they were, two different gang stamps were used - dunno why you do that though?

Gang 1 in the Upper Left: E7P2585 and then Gang 2 in the Lower Right: a fainter stamp (?ghost digit under the 5 on the upper stamp) then the 2?7C you have pointed out.

InkedDouble stamp CE_LI.jpg

Here's another one on Ebay that doesn't follow the rules listed above - it looks like it reads CEN525??4. What's the "N" for? VERY FAINT, but it's there. 5th image

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Over-The-Counter-Service-Replacement-327-small-journal-3959512/123233652707?hash=item1cb14c4fe3:g:XWIAAOSw7IpbPsA-

Another one on Ebay: CE0091077 so, is this 1970? Not sure it follows the rules either with double "00" before the 9? 3rd image...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1969-3959512-block-302-327-350-service-replacement-warranty-1967-1968-LOOK/324398931987?epid=657557245&hash=item4b87aee013:g:KmEAAOSwbtNfsyHW

Interesting posts, indeed. thx, Mark

[Paul D.]

Re: Confused about the CE block code info on my 67 BB.

Joe, did all complete or partial engines ordered during the CE program's time period receive the "CE" denotation or just those ordered through the warranty program? Would a over the counter, non warranty engine be stamped "CE"?