Matching Motor Opinions Desired

[Loren L.]

Re: Matching Motor Opinions Desired

In 1963, I am unaware of any Chevrolet car line that was being stamped with a VIN derivative other than Corvette. Kinda opens the bag...... And it's hard to ignore the wrong casting #........

[Joe L.]

Re: Matching Motor Opinions Desired

In 1963, I am unaware of any Chevrolet car line that was being stamped with a VIN derivative other than Corvette. Kinda opens the bag...... And it's hard to ignore the wrong casting #........

Loren------


Passenger car blocks had VIN derivative stampings beginning in 1962.

[Joe L.]

Re: Matching Motor Opinions Desired

Gentlemen

I recently purchased a 66 Corvette. My prior corvette was a numbers matching small block but I was never into the flight judging.

My current 66, purchased this week, was modified by the seller, not an NCRS type. Car has ZZ4 crate motor replacing the 300HP 327. Powerglide has been replaced by 4 speed, car is currently rally red, originally 972 white, VBP suspension front and rear,etc.

Seller included the original motor but said not likely numbers matching. It has been sitting in his brother's barn for 19 years. So I check out the motor. Block 3782870 F305 date code ( June 30 05?). The car is a November 65 production date. Block has VIN NUMBER derivative and F0II4 HO ( Powerglide 327). Looks like a matching number motor to me!!! All there except carb as far as I could tell.

My dilemma, what should I do about the motor?

Motor is 500 miles away still in the sellers barn. I had no way to transport it home or a place to store it

It seems to me it would be prohibitive financially to restore the car back to original. Even with just matching motor, big NCRS judging hits for tranny and paint mods.

Option A pay for storage and offer to next "custodian". Storage costs may exceed value of motor.
Option B sell it. What would it be worth? 327 300HP sitting 19 years, PG suffix.

Randy

Randy------

If you could get good photos of the engine stamp pad and block casting date it might help us evaluate this.

One more thing: are you sure this car is a 1966 model? Have you checked the VIN plate to see if there are any possible "irregularities" with that? Have you checked the frame derivative stamping to see if it matches the VIN plate? As I've mentioned many times before, anyone buying an old Corvette should ALWAYS check these things. Yes, I know that it's difficult to check the frame VIN stamping. It's supposed to be that way. That's what makes it the most reliable identification on the car. If it were easy to see and get at, it would also be easy to "mess with".

[Randy S.]

[Randy S.]

Re: Matching Motor Opinions Desired

Joe
here is only photo I have of engine stamp. If you can enlarge it you can see the vin number

[Dan A.]

Re: Matching Motor Opinions Desired

"I am assuming a November car 194676S105XXX could get a 1965 block 3782870."

Not a good assumption. Unless you can substantiate your assumption, which I doubt you can.

[Gene M.]

Re: Matching Motor Opinions Desired

The vin of the car is not mentioned. Also the photo of engine pad is not legible. The poster having access to both should be able to distinguish that they do not match each other. Dating and numbers indicates this engine is not for said car. Possible indicating it is a Corvette engine but not for the car in question.

[Leif A.]

Re: Matching Motor Opinions Desired

Although, now with the picture one can read a partial assembly date "FII0..." which would then make it a November assembly. The OP posted 'F0114" prior. With this faux pas, I'm sure other numbers are misread/misquoted.

[Mike M.]

Re: Matching Motor Opinions Desired

Joe. Chevy did not stamp the vin derivative starting in 1962. Mike

[Randy S.]

Re: Matching Motor Opinions Desired

Leif

Good catch.

So I have a F1104HO assembly date of Nov 11 300HP powerglide. VIN # 194676S105652 which according to birthday book is a Nov 12 production date.

I have C12 body build date on trim tag ( Nov 12)

I have a vin number on block that matches the trim tag. I personally saw this. But I have a 3782870 block. I did not confirm the block number but cant imagine him getting it wrong. Chevrolet by the numbers says "It has been documented that in the period leading up to a possible strike, engines were built and stockpiled up to a six month supply." I could not find anything in Noland's book about 870 blocks in early 66 cars. Curious if NCRS judging guide says this is possible.

Randy

[Joe L.]

Re: Matching Motor Opinions Desired

Joe. Chevy did not stamp the vin derivative starting in 1962. Mike

Mike------


The information that I have indicates that for 1962 all passenger cars with 327/300HP and all 409 were supposed to have the VIN derivative stamped on the engine pad. Whether all actually did, I do not know.

[Joe L.]

Re: Matching Motor Opinions Desired

Leif

Good catch.

So I have a F1104HO assembly date of Nov 11 300HP powerglide. VIN # 194676S105652 which according to birthday book is a Nov 12 production date.

I have C12 body build date on trim tag ( Nov 12)

I have a vin number on block that matches the trim tag. I personally saw this. But I have a 3782870 block. I did not confirm the block number but cant imagine him getting it wrong. Chevrolet by the numbers says "It has been documented that in the period leading up to a possible strike, engines were built and stockpiled up to a six month supply." I could not find anything in Noland's book about 870 blocks in early 66 cars. Curious if NCRS judging guide says this is possible.

Randy

Randy------


I can't see the VIN derivative well enough in the photo to say much about it. However, I HIGHLY doubt that more than 20 years ago someone "re-stamped" a 300 HP Corvette engine (indicated by the "HO" code and which would have already had a VIN derivative stamping on the block). Much more likely in my opinion is that the engine is original to the car but the VIN plate is NOT original to the car. Since 1965 and 1966 Corvettes are so similar, especially if the car is a convertible, that would be a very easy switch for someone to have done way back when. I've even seen Corvettes that were quite different in model year with "non-original" VIN plates. And, I've seen some Corvettes which had passenger car VIN plates! The fact that this car has been modified (and, thus "disguised") creates even more concern.

If you think that this sort of "switcheroo" is impossible or, even, rare, you are wrong.

By the way, another good reason for removing this engine from the car might be because someone didn't want that VIN derivative appearing anywhere on the car. Someone could have wanted the car completely "cleansed" of that VIN derivative. Of course, the one place that would have been extremely difficult to do is the frame VIN stamping. Very few people look at that, though.

As I previously mentioned, the only way to tell is to compare the car's frame VIN derivative to the VIN plate number.

[Darryl D.]

Re: Matching Motor Opinions Desired

Randy------


I can't see the VIN derivative well enough in the photo to say much about it. However, I HIGHLY doubt that more than 20 years ago someone "re-stamped" a 300 HP Corvette engine (indicated by the "HO" code and which would have already had a VIN derivative stamping on the block). Much more likely in my opinion is that the engine is original to the car but the VIN plate is NOT original to the car. Since 1965 and 1966 Corvettes are so similar, especially if the car is a convertible, that would be a very easy switch for someone to have done way back when. I've even seen Corvettes that were quite different in model year with "non-original" VIN plates. And, I've seen some Corvettes which had passenger car VIN plates! The fact that this car has been modified (and, thus "disguised") creates even more concern.

If you think that this sort of "switcheroo" is impossible or, even, rare, you are wrong.

By the way, another good reason for removing this engine from the car might be because someone didn't want that VIN derivative appearing anywhere on the car. Someone could have wanted the car completely "cleansed" of that VIN derivative. Of course, the one place that would have been extremely difficult to do is the frame VIN stamping. Very few people look at that, though.

As I previously mentioned, the only way to tell is to compare the car's frame VIN derivative to the VIN plate number.

I don't understand why you mind would "go there" regarding this car. There are many other reasons I ould think of long before this as to why a 50 year old car might have the engine removed.

[Joe L.]

Re: Matching Motor Opinions Desired

I don't understand why you mind would "go there" regarding this car. There are many other reasons I ould think of long before this as to why a 50 year old car might have the engine removed.

Darryl------


Sure, there are lots of other reasons. However, there are many other factors involved here than just an engine replacement. Chief among them are these: if this engine has a legit VIN derivative engine stamping (and, I highly suspect that it does) AND IF that VIN derivative stamping matches the VIN on your VIN plate, then this is the original engine of the car ORIGINALLY fitted with that VIN plate but not necessarily the car currently "wearing" that VIN plate. In that case, I would be highly suspicious of the "pedigree" of this car. That's because, based upon what we know of the other identification numbers on this engine, it's somewhat unlikely that this engine was ever originally installed in a 1966 Corvette. I'm not saying it's impossible; I'm saying it's somewhat unlikely.

It could well be that everything here is 100% legit. That's why I suggest that you inspect the VIN tag for any irregularities and, most important, check the frame VIN derivative to see if it matches the VIN tag. These are not massively difficult things to do and won't cost you a penny to do. However, could it be that you're afraid to do this?

[Darryl D.]

Re: Matching Motor Opinions Desired

Darryl------


Sure, there are lots of other reasons. However, there are many other factors involved here than just an engine replacement. Chief among them are these: if this engine has a legit VIN derivative engine stamping (and, I highly suspect that it does) AND IF that VIN derivative stamping matches the VIN on your VIN plate, then this is the original engine of the car ORIGINALLY fitted with that VIN plate but not necessarily the car currently "wearing" that VIN plate. In that case, I would be highly suspicious of the "pedigree" of this car. That's because, based upon what we know of the other identification numbers on this engine, it's somewhat unlikely that this engine was ever originally installed in a 1966 Corvette. I'm not saying it's impossible; I'm saying it's somewhat unlikely.

It could well be that everything here is 100% legit. That's why I suggest that you inspect the VIN tag for any irregularities and, most important, check the frame VIN derivative to see if it matches the VIN tag. These are not massively difficult things to do and won't cost you a penny to do. However, could it be that you're afraid to do this?

Well, first of all this is NOT my car so I am afraid of nothing and have no dog in this hunt.

When I participate in a thread I try to read the entire thing.

The OP indicates in his first post "Seller included the original motor but said not likely numbers matching. It has been sitting in his brother's barn for 19 years." "Car has ZZ4 crate motor replacing the 300HP 327. Powerglide has been replaced by 4 speed."

To me, there is no indication that he is afraid of anything either. Sounds like a typical drive train swap of 20 years ago for someone that was far more interested in a hipo 4 speed car rather than a 300 h.p. powerglide car that simply set the engine that was in the car aside (be it original or not) and I certainly would not start looking at this car as a V.I.N. switched car based on any of this.