Brake judging

[Joe L.]

Re: Brake judging

I look for color, DM logo and if see something suspect, look at the hoses and if the hex metal ends are plated gold dichromate are whatever plating color that is. Lonestar got a batch of an alloy hex crimped ends and I saw them on a Pace Car. It was obvious the calipers had been changed so a chassis judge gets nosey. Starts looking at other stuff! I have always considered hoses a safety item. But if its a Bowtie candidate...well you know the story there.

Tom------


Just a few other notes regarding brake hoses and, let me be clear, I am not offering these up to create new judging criteria:

1) Many of the SERVICE brake hoses available today for C1, C2, and C3 applications are manufactured in China. This is pretty much the case regardless of what brand one selects. This does not make them bad, though, as all are DOT-approved. Plus, many of the brake hoses used on new cars are sourced from China. There is at least one source that's still USA-manufactured, though;

2) Many of the brake hoses available today use a hose which has a somewhat smaller OD than original brake hoses;

3) The 1967-72 single crimped brake hoses and the 1973-82 double crimped brake hoses both were designed so that the flange on the inner fitting was integral with the fitting. Many replacement brake hoses have the flange as a separate, removable piece (almost like a large C-clip). I believe that pre-1967 brake lines may have been designed this way but no 67-82 ever originally was of this design.

[Joe L.]

Re: Brake judging

Sounds like it to me...........change is good just tell somebody

David-----

In fairness to the system, if every nuance of detail were to be covered in the judging guides, these guides would be many thousands of pages.

On the other hand, if cars were judged solely on the basis of what's covered in the judging guides, then there would be many 100 point cars out there that deviated from original configuration in MANY ways.

[Tom R.]

Re: Brake judging

Tom------


Just a few other notes regarding brake hoses and, let me be clear, I am not offering these up to create new judging criteria:

1) Many of the SERVICE brake hoses available today for C1, C2, and C3 applications are manufactured in China. This is pretty much the case regardless of what brand one selects. This does not make them bad, though, as all are DOT-approved. Plus, many of the brake hoses used on new cars are sourced from China. There is at least one source that's still USA-manufactured, though;

That's what I learned from the Lonestar brake tech. I spent probably two hours over there during Carlisle. I would go first thing in the AM before they got swamped so I could pull them aside and interrogate them. That's when I learned about the alloy fitting that the Chinese used but failed to tell anyone. But then...if the specs fail to provide the specific plating...what can you expect? A product a cost cutting measure!

[David W.]

Re: Brake judging

Understood Joe............is there a way to improve the "system"? BTW a few more 100 point cars may actually be good not bad. Good for moral. After tons of time and money spent only to be shocked and disappointed when the scoring sheet is reviewed makes for more cost and time. Lets make it user friendly.............Anyway how bout for those who purchase Guides have access to an onsite portal dedicated to Guide addenda and technical communication in real time rather than periodic costly and labor intensive hardcopy updates. But what do I know............I did it in my past engineering career. Remember this thread started as a relatively simple brake/guide question. Thanks for the good debate and info.

[Mark D.]

Re: Brake judging

Same old worn out subject, different day.

NCRS is the fairest judging on the planet but, it just isn't good enough, for some. 94.0% and the car is awarded a Top Flight but, people want more. Most judging bodies don't even have judging guides. Here, the vocal minority want to use our comprehensive 'guides' against our high standards so their car can attain a higher score. The TIM&JG is a fantastic publication but it is a GUIDE.

In my opinion, there should be no debate when it comes to maintaining the highest standards that have been established and defended all these decades. The demands of NCRS Flight judging isn't for everybody, that's why there are other avenues of enjoyment within our organization but, that isn't good enough, for some.

Why doesn't my kid get to play? Why didn't everybody get a trophy? Why doesn't my 91.0% Corvette get a 99.5%, or higher? It just isn't fair I tell ya...it just isn't fair!

Kramden

[Tom R.]

Re: Brake judging

Same old worn out subject, different day.

NCRS is the fairest judging on the planet but, it just isn't good enough, for some. 94.0% and the car is awarded a Top Flight but, people want more. Most judging bodies don't even have judging guides. Here, the vocal minority want to use our comprehensive 'guides' against our high standards so their car can attain a higher score. The TIM&JG is a fantastic publication but it is a GUIDE.

In my opinion, there should be no debate when it comes to maintaining the highest standards that have been established and defended all these decades. The demands of NCRS Flight judging isn't for everybody, that's why there are other avenues of enjoyment within our organization but, that isn't good enough, for some.

Why doesn't my kid get to play? Why didn't everybody get a trophy? Why doesn't my 91.0% Corvette get a 99.5%, or higher? It just isn't fair I tell ya...it just isn't fair!

Kramden

Is it time to administer a "Snowflake Test" with the membership application?

[Bob J.]

Re: Brake judging

Mark, I agee with you.
Maybe we should have how to restore stuff schools and less how to judge stuff schools.
New guys get the feeling its all in working the judging system and not in RESTORING a car. ;-)
Bob Jorjorian

[Don H.]

Re: Brake judging

We already do; they're called tech sessions.

[Bob J.]

Re: Brake judging

I must have missed reading about those TECH session retreats each year.

Bob Jorjorian

[Rick A.]

Re: Brake judging

Junkie - typically here in the Bawlmer area, "Armenian Tony" Avedisian has at least one Tech session every year

[Joe L.]

Re: Brake judging

We already do; they're called tech sessions.

Don------


We have multiple "tech sessions" everyday here on this discussion board.

[Michael G.]

Re: Brake judging

Tech, schmeck... I am still mystified as to how the OP could ever get the mistaken idea that proper logos and part numbers would not be expected to be present for flight judging. My impression has always been that judged cars should appear as close as possible to how they were delivered to the selling dealership.

Just paint your Wilwoods black, ya that's it, that'll fly :-)

[Donald H.]

Re: Brake judging

I'm still a relatively new guy. But what I learned from restoring my 1960, and taking it through regional and national judging, and now in the process of completing restoration of my 66 coupe is that if you are interested in flight judging, restore the car as it came from the factory. Some of that information is in the judging guide. Some of it can be found by searching this forum. Some of it is in the AIM. And for C1s and C2s some of it is in the Nolan Adams books.

If you want to do well in flight judging, you need to do your research. I found out early in restoring my C1 that there was a lot of judging criteria no in the judging guide.

The only thing I can't bring myself to do is have my car painted 'like factory'. I just can't see paying $15 to $20k for a no deduct paint. But I understand the guidelines and expect to take the deduct.

[David W.]

Re: Brake judging

OK girls chill out.......the original BRAKE question was asked because the late model C3 Guide was silent on the obvious to some me included (casting logos, part #s etc) and it was thought the just MAYBE it referenced ONLY color intentionally for obvious reasons. That being said my 5 star Bowtie, Mclellan, 4x TF, PV, Sportsman, BG certified, Triple Crown car doesn't need any pity or points. Its one of the highest awarded retired cars in existence. Find something else to do like work on your car..................

[Michael G.]

Re: Brake judging

Wow, sounds like a nice car. Sorry about the snide comment. I'll just go back to working on my car now.... :-)