Brake judging

[David W.]

Time to rebuild and/or replace calipers and hoses. Master cylinder, cap and booster all good to go. My judging manual only really references the latter three items except caliper color I believe. The car is a one and done Bow Tie so with that being the case are the calipers and hoses flight judged? Can the calipers and hoses (ie Wilwood and SS hoses) be changed in light of safety without deductions for originality?

[David W.]

Re: Brake judging

Looks like I was able to answer my own question. 2 points for caliper color(black) and 2 points for rotors and hoses. Not a big price to pay if its just cosmetics. Everyones originality objective is different when it comes to performance and safety.

[Joe L.]

Re: Brake judging

Looks like I was able to answer my own question. 2 points for caliper color(black) and 2 points for rotors and hoses. Not a big price to pay if its just cosmetics. Everyones originality objective is different when it comes to performance and safety.

David------


As far as the brake hoses go, if the car is pre-1973 you won't even be able to obtain original configuration hoses. Those hoses were single crimped and such hoses are no longer manufactured due to DOT regulations. Although I have NOS originals [none for sale], I would not even dream of installing them on a car. Never. Ever.

[Michael B.]

Re: Brake judging

David,

I may be wrong, but it is my understanding that brake hoses are not to be judged because of safety concerns. Same with ball joints. Hopefully an experienced judge will comment.

Mike

[Gary B.]

Re: Brake judging

David,

I may be wrong, but it is my understanding that brake hoses are not to be judged because of safety concerns. Same with ball joints. Hopefully an experienced judge will comment.

Mike

Mike,

Ball joints are indeed a judged item during flight judging.

Gary

[Michael B.]

Re: Brake judging

Gary,

I'm mostly familiar with 70 - 72 cars and that JG specifically states that replacement ball joints are not to be penalized due to safety concerns (page 194). I just assumed that was the case for all years.

Mike

[Gary B.]

Re: Brake judging

Mike,

That's very interesting. Ball joints are a judged item for '66 and I presume all C2s.

Gary

[Michael B.]

Re: Brake judging

Gary,

There is a line on the 70 - 72 Chassis Judging Sheet for "Upper and lower ball joints", but the JG instructs that only the fasteners should be judged, meaning riveted instead of bolted. I've only been in NCRS for three years so this may be a somewhat recent change.

Mike

[Gary B.]

Re: Brake judging

Mike,

Very interesting. It could be something that will incorporated into the next revision for other years. It's hard to imagine that the powers that be want different standards for different years for something like ball joints.

Gary

[David W.]

Re: Brake judging

Thanks Joe................good hose info. As noted the brake judging appears to be cosmetic only. Caliper castings (Delco vs. non-Delco) lip seals vs. O-rings etc are not judged just the color of the caliper according to my 78-79 JM. Hoses are to be "GM replacements" meaning rubber with hex end. I haven't found GM replacements. So no SS. BTW my JM states replacement ball joints are not to be penalized only the fasteners. Bolts in lieu of rivets get a 1 point deduction. Lower cotter pin placement is also judged.

[Patrick H.]

Re: Brake judging

Thanks Joe................good hose info. As noted the brake judging appears to be cosmetic only. Caliper castings (Delco vs. non-Delco) lip seals vs. O-rings etc are not judged just the color of the caliper according to my 78-79 JM. Hoses are to be "GM replacements" meaning rubber with hex end. I haven't found GM replacements. So no SS. BTW my JM states replacement ball joints are not to be penalized only the fasteners. Bolts in lieu of rivets get a 1 point deduction. Lower cotter pin placement is also judged.

I would suggest that if a Chassis judge can see that your brake calipers are non-GM, s/he will deduct. Given that seeing this is difficult in some situations, it is not always a cause for a deduction. As millions of calipers were made by GM, and new correctly-numbered castings are currently being made in reproduction, there is no reason to have incorrectly numbered castings.

It is impossible to see the seals without disassembling the caliper, so there is no way to judge this.

Current GM replacements will look the same as hoses from anywhere else, so it's a matter of just having rubber hoses with crimped metal ends.

[David W.]

Re: Brake judging

Well there are no directives or guidelines for caliper casting deduction in the JM other than color (2 points for all four) period. So if there is some kind of discretion we have no idea what it is. Unless someone knowledgeable can enlighten us I would suggest calipers are off limits.

[Joe L.]

Re: Brake judging

Well there are no directives or guidelines for caliper casting deduction in the JM other than color (2 points for all four) period. So if there is some kind of discretion we have no idea what it is. Unless someone knowledgeable can enlighten us I would suggest calipers are off limits.

Dave------


There are lots of things that may be judged that are not covered in the judging guides. However, the judging guides are getting to be more comprehensive as new editions are released.

[David W.]

Re: Brake judging

Joe
Really............geez I would hope that the judging would be commensurate with the current available JM. How can an owner intelligently prepare the car when the rules of the game change and there are a bunch of unknowns. Can i get a refund for my JM?? Wouldn't it be more appropriate to adjust/modify judging practices for specific year cars only when the new editions or addendum's are released? In other words judge the car per the current JM.

[Patrick H.]

Re: Brake judging

Unfortunately, no. The knowledge base moves forward at a faster pace than most of the Judging Guides can match.
They are a guide, and no matter what the year of the car you still need to study in order to prepare your car.

However, the printing of a new Judging Guide definitely moves the standard forward for all cars judged after that time.