1967 L71 Engine Bay & Underdash Wiring Configuration Views

[Richard M.]

Re: 1967 L71 Engine Bay & Underdash Wiring Configuration Views

A little more research showing the Engine Bay Wiring/Clip configuration and AIM references with notes. I used big pics this time as I needed to add notes above each page.

Rich

UPC 11-13 B5



3 clips, 1 at Center Line of cowl and 1 each side at 10.08" of CL. It appears that the drillers didn't use a ruler on the cars and got them riveted on just "close-enough".


UPC 12 A8 You can study this sheet for days and still get it wrong. Lots of info here. Use this sheet along with K66 sheet A3 and it's even more fun.



Item 22 clip under the DS hood gutter is for only the Forward Harness heading over to the Pass side, etc. Note the reference "14 in the oval". That must be 14" from CL. K66 TI harness ALSO should also be captured in this clip along with the engine harness. See K66 A3 further down.




Item 25 "Clip Special" holds only the harness before it wraps inside the corner on it's way to the heater blower motor. Note the oval "19.50" CL reference.

Item 22 clip under the Pass side gutter holds the harness above the heater blower motor. A Pop Rivet is used to hold this clip, however, the AIM reference shows the head of the rivet reversed. The rivet head is inserted from inboard to outboard as shown in the black car photos above. This pop rivet may be a rosette rivet on earlier midyears IIRC. I am unsure what specifically happens with this end of the harness on a car with C48 "Less Heater Equipment". No C48 AIM info is detailed, but I would imagine it may be taped and held in this clip to keep clear of danger.



10" from CL is the area where the coil wires are taped to the harness as it goes across to the Pass side. Note that it is not shown taped to the hood release cable. With K66 TI, both White and Black coil wires, the #18G "R-Terminal" Pink wire connector assembly, and extra #18G Pink wire loop gets wrapped with the tape. This tape is cloth friction tape, not vinyl tape. The AIM references a Small Block configuration but is similar for the Big Blocks with K66. See K66 Sheet A3.


K66 A3


Note that the BB(L71) configuration is not shown. THe ignition coil on a BB is on the driver side of the distributor. The TI harness and Engine harness are held to the release cable with plastic ties, and also captured by the clip mentioned above near the DS female latch.



THis is where the #18G Pink wire for the Solenoid R terminal(AIM note "RESISTOR LEAD" can get confusing. The AIM is misleading. The #18G Pink wire comes out of the engine harness on the opposite side of the distributor, not as shown in the AIM. See my notes below.


This "special clip" is rubberized and holds only the TI harness, which comes across over the MC(Booster on J50) from the gutter clip and down to this clip. This clip can be anywhere under the latch. They didn't care where they drilled the hole. I've never seen this clip exactly where it's specified to be.



Back to UPC 12 A8. A clip is held by a heater box stud Palnut to capture the harness headed to the starter.



UPC 12 A10



Note Item 21 "Clip Special" and the pop rivet, installed 10" from a "Existing Hole" in the inner skirt. The rivet head direction is properly shown unlike the Pass side. On a K66 car both harnesses are captured by this clip.


Don't forget the clip at the core support to hold the engine harness.



The TI harness cannot fit in the above clip with the forward harness but just travels alongside. As the 2 harnesses pass over the core support top edge, friction tape holds the 2 together. Note that the AIM shows the VR in the wrong place.
Ref K66 A2.



One often forgotten item. The washer hose to the bottle is held to the harnesses AND the hood release cable, and a clip holds the hose to the hood latch as shown.


===

[Patrick B.]

Re: 1967 L71 Engine Bay & Underdash Wiring Configuration Views

Returning to the original question of J-clips around the brake booster or master cylinder, I think there is a difference between PB and non-PB cars. Attached are pictures of three 67's all with TI harnesses. My car is the green one. The PB booster has not yet been installed but you can see one of the booster mounting holes in the photo. There is no clip on the master cylinder center line, and the nearest clip is about 9 inches from the car center line (as opposed to 10.08" shown in the AIM).

The PB red car has the same clip as mine and also no clip behind the booster.

The blue car does not have PB, and it has the clip behind behind the master cylinder, which does not hold the hood release cable. It also has the clip seen on the PB cars which holds the hood release cable as on the PB cars.

[Leif A.]

Re: 1967 L71 Engine Bay & Underdash Wiring Configuration Views

My factory original '67 PB car has the clip at the brake booster as shown in post #11, so I don't think it's a PB vs non-PB issue. Possibly a St. Louis vs AO Smith situation?? Mine is a St Louis car.

[Patrick B.]

Re: 1967 L71 Engine Bay & Underdash Wiring Configuration Views

All three of the cars in my pictures are L-71s which were only made in St Louis, so that shoots both of our theories.

[Richard M.]

Re: 1967 L71 Engine Bay & Underdash Wiring Configuration Views

Maybe the clip in question was hit or miss just like Brian McHale said, and like the weather, another example of the science of chaos.

[Leif A.]

Re: 1967 L71 Engine Bay & Underdash Wiring Configuration Views

Wouldn't it be just peachy if the folks in DC were as concerned about the issues as were are about a miniscule clip...

[Richard M.]

Re: 1967 L71 Engine Bay & Underdash Wiring Configuration Views

Wouldn't it be just peachy if the folks in DC were as concerned about the issues as were are about a miniscule clip...

Separates the smart..........from the not so smart.

The folks that re-restore these cars in a hundred years will thank us for it.........or they'll laugh their butts off.

[Brian M.]

Re: 1967 L71 Engine Bay & Underdash Wiring Configuration Views

BTW mine is a St. Louis non PB car. 7471. The AIM calls it out as a PROD. part. I would think it was meant for all cars???

[Richard M.]

Re: 1967 L71 Engine Bay & Underdash Wiring Configuration Views

Brian, agreed, it WAS meant for ALL cars as it's a PROD part. I think a possible reason why some cars have this clip and some don't is that line workers knew there was a mistake in the AIM instructions and didn't install it. Some workers deviated from the AIM instructions and put it in.

The other day we installed this mystery clip, about 14" from cowl centerline as shown in the AIM. There was a trace of the original rivet up under the gutter so we installed it in the place where the original was but had fallen off at some time in the past. We noticed it was just under the gutter dimple. More on that later. We installed it just like we figured it was before, with the direction of the loop end of the clip facing forward and the hole for the rivet rearward.

Later, I looked at AIM UPC 12 A8 again(below) and realized I installed it wrong, or did I? Then it hit me.....the AIM is wrong. Notice the placement of the clip and direction of the clip open end and the rivet. The rivet is a soft rivet and must be tool-set to fasten it. If so, then the rivet end would be visible in the hood gutter if it was done per the AIM. Observations on cars show this clip is always facing the opposite way from the AIM depiction with the loop end facing forward.

This next part is just speculation on my part. Another mystery which may be related, is that infamous gutter "pimple"(or if looking from underneath of a unbonded top surround...a "dimple") right near this area where the clip is. This pimple was right next to the old rivet head on the car we just did. I don't know about opinions about this pimple, and maybe I'm simply uninformed, but I'm getting a intuition that it was simply a hole locator for this clip rivet. At some point it was decided not to drill the hole for the rivet there and drill the hole further back so it's hidden and not in the flat area of the gutter. If there was a tool-set rivet end sticking up in the gutter, over time maybe it could corrode and fall off, so they changed the location. Again, just speculation, but it may well be the reason we see that pimple on original cars that haven't had it sanded off.

Past discussions.....HERE and HERE It's purpose was never really identified.



More...........

UPC 1 BOLT WELD Sheet A5
Here are dimensions and references (see View B) for the holes drilled in the "Panel - Plenum Center" for the clips for the wiring and hood release cable.

This plenum center panel is bonded to the firewall panel in a later assembly (Sheet A10). Before it's bonded various holes were drilled, some for those harness and hood release cable clips. It seems by my observation that all clips were attached and rivets set before the top surround was later bonded to the top of this panel.

Note the ".140 DIA. HOLE" (lower right View B) and it's reference location. I think this is the hole for the mystery clip to be used in place of the hole locator "pimple" as intended to be shown later in UPC 12 A8. There is hole dimension difference between these 2 pages.

IMO, the gutter pimple was a unused hole locator and a artifact seen on original cars.



For what it's worth, probably a useless exercise in details, but I learned a few things and had some fun researching.

Rich

[Brian M.]

Re: 1967 L71 Engine Bay & Underdash Wiring Configuration Views

Rich, I think you figured this out, very interesting.

[Richard M.]

Re: 1967 L71 Engine Bay & Underdash Wiring Configuration Views

Rich, I think you figured this out, very interesting.

Brian, et al......I think there's a flaw in my theory...

I don't have a midyear to look at here so I asked for some pictures of that clip area behind the brake MC/Booster from someone I know that has a car apart. I'm now unsure if the gutter pimple has anything to do with that clip, however, there still seems to be AIM confusion about the clip direction and the rivet direction used to attach the clip.

The AIM UPC 12 A8 (Release date 5-66) shows head of rivet from below, going into the clip hole then upward into the plenum center panel into the hole previously drilled in UPC 1 Bolt Weld A5. This hole is actually NOT in a hidden area covered by the top surround. It is visible in the cowl vent grille area. The example below clearly shows the head of the rivet inserted from the TOP down and set just under the clip which would then be visible under the gutter.

AIM UPC 1 A5 shows the .140" diameter hole at 13.25" from center (15" - 1.73") and .94" from the rear edge of the panel, which is under the vent grille in the air vent plenum for the kick panel fresh air vent and water drain in the hinge pillar birdcage area.

Center plenum panel area on the driver side showing clip. Note direction of clip is opposite of AIM instruction UPC 12 A8.


Here's the clip under the center plenum panel and end of set soft rivet.


This view is from above looking down into the grille vent plenum, driver side to the left. That gray dot is the gutter pimple/dimple that had a little paint rubbed off. The head of the clip rivet is on top of the center plenum apx center/slightly right of photo. Center of cowl plenum to the right. Rivet head is apx 13" from center on this one, apx in line with the AIM spec of 15" from CL - 1.75".


Since this area seems tough to get at, I think this clip, and in fact all clips were likely installed on the plenum center panel before bonding to the firewall/body. Seems to me that production would be optimized doing it that way.

Rich

[Brian M.]

Re: 1967 L71 Engine Bay & Underdash Wiring Configuration Views

I went to look at this on my car yesterday, I was expecting to find this J clip riveted to the fire wall, not the case, also not in line with the 13th W/W grill vane, so there goes the dimple theory. I'll have to start feeling around for for evidence of a rivet when the J clip is missing (when allowed) Good research non the less. Thanks

[Richard M.]

Re: 1967 L71 Engine Bay & Underdash Wiring Configuration Views

To all,

I wish to thank you all for your help and guidance regarding my request for opinions in this matter.

The car was judged yesterday at the Regional. ALL electrical system wiring harness configurations, associated clips, fasteners, plastic ties, etc in both the engine bay and forward and rear areas and all associated wiring underdash........... had ZERO deducts on this car.

Rich
PS Brian M..... a additional thank you for bringing up that "mystery clip" issue.

[Brian M.]

Re: 1967 L71 Engine Bay & Underdash Wiring Configuration Views

Glad all worked out, I hope we learned something here.

To all,

I wish to thank you all for your help and guidance regarding my request for opinions in this matter.

The car was judged yesterday at the Regional. ALL electrical system wiring harness configurations, associated clips, fasteners, plastic ties, etc in both the engine bay and forward and rear areas and all associated wiring underdash........... had ZERO deducts on this car.

Rich
PS Brian M..... a additional thank you for bringing up that "mystery clip" issue.

[Patrick B.]

Re: 1967 L71 Engine Bay & Underdash Wiring Configuration Views

Richard ---- K66 page A3 appears to show the end of the taped section of the TI harness taped to the regular front harness with the piece of tape marked 8. I have replaced the regular front harness but I am using the original TI harness on my 67 L-71. It does not seem long enough to reach past the car center line as shown on K66 A3. Do you have any pictures showing where the TI harness ends relative to the regular harness. I don't want to secure the harnesses to the hood cable until I am sure they are correctly aligned. Thanks