63-67 & 68-72 Surge Tank date codes

[Mike E.]

Re: 63-67 & 68-72 Surge Tank date codes

Michael,
Don't you think that's why Tom DeWitt started this thread?

[Gene M.]

Re: 63-67 & 68-72 Surge Tank date codes

Gene,

If the data in Nolan Adams' book that he obtained from owners reflects originality, GM did not buy surge tanks quarterly. For example, Noland's info from '67 owners lists surge tank code codes (just showing those for Jan and newer here) of 67A, 67B, 67C, 67D, 67E, 67G. No 67F, but only 25 cars are listed from Jan-July, so it could be just too small of a sample.


Gary

Gary
IMHO Noland's book is not a final source for information to determine the yes and no to arrive at a conclusion. There have been too many errors disclosed in it. But that aside has anyone published any kind of data to support this dating that Tom is inquiring about? Aluminum tanks are like radiators they have a life expectancy and get changed out. With so many replaced how can data be collected that is reliable?

Another thing to consider just because a part was sourced and purchased in say March does not mean it was made in March. The aluminum surge tanks were Corvette unique not like the hose clamps that were corporate wide. I can see why the clamps were purchased in two quarters (1st and 3rd) to get the big volume cost effective price.

[Michael J.]

Re: 63-67 & 68-72 Surge Tank date codes

Michael,
Don't you think that's why Tom DeWitt started this thread?

Yes, that is obvious now, but the first post was in some code I did not understand since I had no idea what the '61-'62 team lead was doing to change the standards of judging and it was not explained by Tom. I do hope the C2 team leads would be more judicious, communicative, and open in their research and reactions to same with the membership long before they spring drastic and expensive changes like this upon the membership.

[Thomas D.]

Re: 63-67 & 68-72 Surge Tank date codes

Michael,
Don't you think that's why Tom DeWitt started this thread?

You are correct

[Mike E.]

Re: 63-67 & 68-72 Surge Tank date codes

Yes, that is obvious now, but the first post was in some code I did not understand since I had no idea what the '61-'62 team lead was doing to change the standards of judging and it was not explained by Tom. I do hope the C2 team leads would be more judicious, communicative, and open in their research and reactions to same with the membership long before they spring drastic and expensive changes like this upon the membership.

More "judicious, communicative and open in their research" than what or whom?

[Michael J.]

Re: 63-67 & 68-72 Surge Tank date codes

More "judicious, communicative and open in their research" than what or whom?

Well, since Tom seems to indicate he was blindsided by the '61-'62 changes, I was assuming very few members knew about what was coming there. Were all these changes and the research that supported it presented and widely shared and communicated with membership and affected people well in advance of this expansion tank date rule change?

[Mike E.]

Re: 63-67 & 68-72 Surge Tank date codes

Well, since Tom seems to indicate he was blindsided by the '61-'62 changes, I was assuming very few members knew about what was coming there. Were all these changes and the research that supported it presented and widely shared and communicated with membership and affected people well in advance of this expansion tank date rule change?

Are you saying that every time we produce a new judging manual that every change has to be announced and debated among the whole membership? This was not a rule change. It is part of the 61-62 JG that has been out since 2015.

[Michael J.]

Re: 63-67 & 68-72 Surge Tank date codes

Are you saying that every time we produce a new judging manual that every change has to be announced and debated among the whole membership? This was not a rule change. It is part of the 61-62 JG that has been out since 2015.

No, not at all. But since there seems to be great adverts and hype surrounding new TIM&JGs when it comes to color pictures, GM document inclusions, etc., it might also be nice to include brief descriptions and rationale of significant changes that will cost members big $$ to make their cars, which were previously TFP under the old TIM&JG and now are NTFP, TFP once again. I don't think that is too much to ask, judges also would be appreciative with such info, I know I would be. Maybe I am just not enough in the inner circle of NCRS organization to know everything that is going on until it happens and is in force, my bad.

[Joe R.]

Re: 63-67 & 68-72 Surge Tank date codes

Gentlemen, it is NOT the responsibility of the NCRS or any other sanctioning body to notify vendors when they change the rules in the judging manual. If the vendors don't comply with the rules it is the responsibility of the owner to seek out another vendor that supplies the correct part so that they comply within certain tolerances. Originality should be the first and foremost measure when manuals are written.

Example: Vendors who produce radiators that can be recognized from across the parking lot as reproductions should not receive full credit!

JR

[Gene M.]

Re: 63-67 & 68-72 Surge Tank date codes

I understand where the membership is coming from wanting to know what the current knowledge is pertaining to a feature, date code, or what ever knowledge that will be scrutinized in judging. Perhaps the previous accepted "facts" that are found to be "false" could be shared here just as other information is shared. I realize everything can't be spelled out in the manuals.

Understand there are points of information not openly shared with the general population because of "fraud factor". And that non disclosure does help protect our hobby. But other than those close guarded points NCRS is quite open and sharing of information.

It is nice to see vendor(s) have an interest is suppling correct parts down to the small details. And we should support that. It is not exactly easy to restore a aluminum radiator or aluminum H2O tank. Exact replacements is in the interest of everybody requiring one.

[Michael J.]

Re: 63-67 & 68-72 Surge Tank date codes

I guess the interest in these things is not the same for everyone here. As a person currently active in judging and preparing my cars for judging, I find that kind of info vital. Some not actively involved probably don't care to know it ASAP. It is very difficult to restore/refurbish an old expansion tank. I found the original one on my white '64 was in bad shape, and the date stamp was very faint for the "4" in the middle anyway. After cleaning it up and trying to make it water tight again, it all but disappeared, so a reproduction was the only way to go. These parts and the conformity with what the current TIM&JG says is pretty important to know ASAP when work is ongoing.

[Jim D.]

Re: 63-67 & 68-72 Surge Tank date codes

Not that you asked, but in the same spirit, I'll report that '65 #23561 (4th from the end) has a '65D tank.

1965 #14790 - 65C
1965 #16786 - 65D

As far as changes in the Judging Guides, it would be nice if the changes made were correct. The latest edition of the 65 guide has at least 2 changes over the previous edition that are incorrect.

[Mike E.]

Re: 63-67 & 68-72 Surge Tank date codes

I guess the interest in these things is not the same for everyone here. As a person currently active in judging and preparing my cars for judging, I find that kind of info vital. Some not actively involved probably don't care to know it ASAP. It is very difficult to restore/refurbish an old expansion tank. I found the original one on my white '64 was in bad shape, and the date stamp was very faint for the "4" in the middle anyway. After cleaning it up and trying to make it water tight again, it all but disappeared, so a reproduction was the only way to go. These parts and the conformity with what the current TIM&JG says is pretty important to know ASAP when work is ongoing.

May I ask what you mean by, or to whom your first sentence is directed?

[Gene M.]

Re: 63-67 & 68-72 Surge Tank date codes

I guess the interest in these things is not the same for everyone here. As a person currently active in judging and preparing my cars for judging, I find that kind of info vital. Some not actively involved probably don't care to know it ASAP. It is very difficult to restore/refurbish an old expansion tank. I found the original one on my white '64 was in bad shape, and the date stamp was very faint for the "4" in the middle anyway. After cleaning it up and trying to make it water tight again, it all but disappeared, so a reproduction was the only way to go. These parts and the conformity with what the current TIM&JG says is pretty important to know ASAP when work is ongoing.

No, not at all. But since there seems to be great adverts and hype surrounding new TIM&JGs when it comes to color pictures, GM document inclusions, etc., it might also be nice to include brief descriptions and rationale of significant changes that will cost members big $$ to make their cars, which were previously TFP under the old TIM&JG and now are NTFP, TFP once again. I don't think that is too much to ask, judges also would be appreciative with such info, I know I would be. Maybe I am just not enough in the inner circle of NCRS organization to know everything that is going on until it happens and is in force, my bad.

Michael,
Understand it is not NCRS responsibility to insure that YOU know all that is necessary minute points to present a car for flight judging. That my friend is up to YOU to learn prior to that work being done on one's car. Members of NCRS for the most part are openly sharing of information necessary to present one's car. Try the NCRS advanced judges school as a lot of unpublished information is discussed there.

[Michael J.]

Re: 63-67 & 68-72 Surge Tank date codes

The third sentence answers that: "Some not actively involved probably don't care to know it ASAP.".