Hat's Off To NCRS For The Commence Of Concours Judging - NCRS Discussion Boards

Hat's Off To NCRS For The Commence Of Concours Judging

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  • Gene M.
    Extremely Frequent Poster
    • April 1, 1985
    • 4232

    #16
    Re: Hat's Off To NCRS For The Commence Of Concours Judging

    Originally posted by Brian Davies (32153)
    I'm a bit concerned. Typically, our chapter meets already suffer from a shortage of judges. Cars we get; judges, not so many. I don't believe that bringing in even more cars (albeit with potential newer members) is the best potential solution when the judges are already overworked.

    Also, I must have missed the model year qualifications. Is this for only the currently eligible Flight years, or anything up through 2017?
    Our chapter has same issue, cars yes, judges not so many. The NCRS by laws only requires chapters to have flight judging. So think of new classes as chapter optional. There is going to be a "trial" of the new classes in Florida.

    Comment

    • Frank D.
      Expired
      • December 27, 2007
      • 2703

      #17
      Re: Hat's Off To NCRS For The Commence Of Concours Judging

      Originally posted by Jerry Koryciak (5099)
      Just don't call them RESTORED cars. Restore mean, return to it's ORIGINAL condition, I'm a purist......preservation, as they came from the dealership. It seems that THE NCRS wants to change our Mission Goal and get more members and $$$$$. Just my opinion !
      If you're a purist it should be "as they came from the factory", not the dealer. Dealers did anything and everything to cars to sell them... Ya want 6 tail lights - you got em...

      Comment

      • Jerry K.
        Frequent User
        • December 1, 1981
        • 93

        #18
        Re: Hat's Off To NCRS For The Commence Of Concours Judging

        Originally posted by Frank Dreano (48332)
        If you're a purist it should be "as they came from the factory", not the dealer. Dealers did anything and everything to cars to sell them... Ya want 6 tail lights - you got em...
        Cars were delivered to the dealers with plastic over the seat, hubcaps in the trunk (solid Axle), on the passenger floor later cars and unwashed. Any thing done at the dealer that was added you paid for, extra.

        Comment

        • Ed N.
          Extremely Frequent Poster
          • May 16, 2010
          • 1001

          #19
          Re: Hat's Off To NCRS For The Commence Of Concours Judging

          This is a move in the right direction.
          Ed Nieves
          NCRS #51799

          Comment

          • Richard M.
            Super Moderator
            • August 31, 1988
            • 11323

            #20
            Re: Hat's Off To NCRS For The Commence Of Concours Judging

            Ed I agree.

            I've told several friends about it and told them I'd ask for them, here......

            https://www.forums.ncrs.org/showthre...679#post789679

            Comment

            • Kenneth M.
              Expired
              • November 13, 2012
              • 41

              #21
              Re: Hat's Off To NCRS For The Commence Of Concours Judging

              I joined the NCRS because of the commitment to originality
              I spent 4 years with a professional Corvette restorer to prepare my 1963 Corvette split window for a NCRS flight judging. I must omit that I have aluminum knock-off wheels (I expected a deduction), however, I missed top flight by 1.2 points because of a oil drop (I drove the car 50 miles to the judging), a factory correct soft tar top replacement battery & wiper blades no dots (to only name a few of the nit-pick deductions). I am still stewing about this.
              So now NCRS is opening up the judging to NON original " Concours Judging"............if it is not factory original, it is not original and concours is only judging the face of the book.

              Comment

              • Bruce B.
                Extremely Frequent Poster
                • May 31, 1996
                • 2930

                #22
                Re: Hat's Off To NCRS For The Commence Of Concours Judging

                "The cover of the book"
                Anything to get new members and make more money...
                Bruce B

                Comment

                • Frank D.
                  Expired
                  • December 27, 2007
                  • 2703

                  #23
                  Re: Hat's Off To NCRS For The Commence Of Concours Judging

                  Originally posted by kenneth moore (55666)
                  I joined the NCRS because of the commitment to originality
                  I spent 4 years with a professional Corvette restorer to prepare my 1963 Corvette split window for a NCRS flight judging. I must omit that I have aluminum knock-off wheels (I expected a deduction), however, I missed top flight by 1.2 points because of a oil drop (I drove the car 50 miles to the judging), a factory correct soft tar top replacement battery & wiper blades no dots (to only name a few of the nit-pick deductions). I am still stewing about this.
                  So now NCRS is opening up the judging to NON original " Concours Judging"............if it is not factory original, it is not original and concours is only judging the face of the book.
                  I missed by 47 points due to aftermarket A/C and too shiny paint....also an SWC. But a miss is as good as a mile. Took a strong regional second flight and would have to think hard about going for Flight Judging again. Maybe Concours, but I think I'm done with Flight Judging....

                  Comment

                  • Kenneth M.
                    Expired
                    • November 13, 2012
                    • 41

                    #24
                    Re: Hat's Off To NCRS For The Commence Of Concours Judging

                    Frank,

                    Hi Brother, I thought that I was the only one who questioned the subjective flight judging, I had all of the pre-flight judging books prior to the judging, however, there was no section for the individual subjective judging section. I asked for a reconsideration about a 1.2 difference to be a top flight rating, I was given a cold shoulder. Now the NCRS is opening up a catagory for a NON ORIGINAL Concours Judging, THAT can't compare to my original car, Something STINKS !!

                    Comment

                    • Frank D.
                      Expired
                      • December 27, 2007
                      • 2703

                      #25
                      Re: Hat's Off To NCRS For The Commence Of Concours Judging

                      I posted a question about the judging of non-factory A/C (I lost close to 70 point all told), another car with the same aftermarket A/C on the car on the same judging floor took a 12 point hit. I was called a whiner and I don't know what all and the thread got closed. An appeal up the line afterwards through the judging ranks (per the Judging Manual) was the sound of crickets. I thought it was a simple straight forward question.

                      I won't put myself through that again. I missed Top Flight by 1% and I'm done...

                      Comment

                      • Patrick H.
                        Beyond Control Poster
                        • December 1, 1989
                        • 11643

                        #26
                        Re: Hat's Off To NCRS For The Commence Of Concours Judging

                        Originally posted by kenneth moore (55666)
                        I must omit that I have aluminum knock-off wheels (I expected a deduction), however, I missed top flight by 1.2 points because of a oil drop (I drove the car 50 miles to the judging), a factory correct soft tar top replacement battery & wiper blades no dots (to only name a few of the nit-pick deductions). I am still stewing about this.
                        If my math is correct, you received a full deduction of 75 points for the wheels. Is that correct? If so, it's hard to start 75 points behind out of the 260 you can lose for a Top Flight, and blame the small deductions for missing Top Flight by 1.2 when you gave away 1.6 with the wheels.

                        Some of the items I recommend when I give a judging seminar usually include...
                        Did you run your car through Operations and verify that every item works? If not, at 25 points each you take quite a hit.
                        Have you and your restorer downloaded the judging sheets and pre-judged the car a couple of times to see where you might expect deductions?
                        Have you read through the Judging Reference Manual to see which standard deductions (tires, exhaust, battery, etc) might apply to your car?

                        I say every time that it is the owner's job to know his car better than the judges when arriving at the event. Ideally there should be zero surprises, though that's not always the case even when I've had my cars judged. Be prepared to politely defend your car but also prepared to learn about things that you didn't know.

                        Use the event as an opportunity to learn about your car and its originality, rather than an opportunity to "stew", and I suspect it will help. Fix those small deductions and I think you'll get that Top Flight even with the knock-off wheels in place.

                        Good luck with that 63! They are beautiful cars.

                        Patrick
                        Vice-Chairman (West), Michigan Chapter NCRS
                        71 "deer modified" coupe
                        72 5-Star Bowtie / Duntov coupe. https://www.flickr.com/photos/124695...57649252735124
                        2008 coupe
                        Available stickers: Engine suffix code, exhaust tips & mufflers, shocks, AIR diverter valve broadcast code.

                        Comment

                        • Kenneth M.
                          Expired
                          • November 13, 2012
                          • 41

                          #27
                          Re: Hat's Off To NCRS For The Commence Of Concours Judging

                          Hi Pat,
                          Nice to hear from another Michigan guy.
                          I did my homework prior to the flight judging and also called a chapter judge regarding points lost for the knock-off wheels, I accept that deduction, and yes I expected a few along the way, however, the other points that were deducted as I mentioned was an individual subjective deduction even after protesting, and yes those subjective deductions prevented me from receiving a top flight by 1.2 points, I'd gladly email you my judging sheets.
                          Anyway, you call it stewing and I call it a legit protest on deaf ears.

                          Ken Moore
                          Detroit Born & raised on Chevrolets

                          Comment

                          • Harry S.
                            Extremely Frequent Poster
                            • July 31, 2002
                            • 5305

                            #28
                            Re: Hat's Off To NCRS For The Commence Of Concours Judging

                            Originally posted by kenneth moore (55666)
                            I joined the NCRS because of the commitment to originality
                            I spent 4 years with a professional Corvette restorer to prepare my 1963 Corvette split window for a NCRS flight judging. I must omit that I have aluminum knock-off wheels (I expected a deduction), however, I missed top flight by 1.2 points because of a oil drop (I drove the car 50 miles to the judging), a factory correct soft tar top replacement battery & wiper blades no dots (to only name a few of the nit-pick deductions). I am still stewing about this.
                            So now NCRS is opening up the judging to NON original " Concours Judging"............if it is not factory original, it is not original and concours is only judging the face of the book.
                            What was the deduction for the oil drop?


                            Comment

                            • Vinnie P.
                              Editor NCRS Restorer Magazine
                              • May 31, 1990
                              • 1567

                              #29
                              Re: Hat's Off To NCRS For The Commence Of Concours Judging

                              Originally posted by kenneth moore (55666)
                              Frank,

                              Hi Brother, I thought that I was the only one who questioned the subjective flight judging, I had all of the pre-flight judging books prior to the judging, however, there was no section for the individual subjective judging section. I asked for a reconsideration about a 1.2 difference to be a top flight rating, I was given a cold shoulder. Now the NCRS is opening up a catagory for a NON ORIGINAL Concours Judging, THAT can't compare to my original car, Something STINKS !!
                              Ken,

                              You say you missed the Top Flight award by 1.2 points, does that mean your car scored a 92.8? If so, you have to remember that a percentage point is really 45 points and if you missed it by 1.2 points you really missed it by 53 total points. Correct me if I'm wrong on this.

                              Vinnie Peters

                              Comment

                              • Hank D.
                                Very Frequent User
                                • January 1, 1999
                                • 137

                                #30
                                simple. Very simple. Remember, we already have complicated

                                Comment

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