1967 won't run after 30 minutes - NCRS Discussion Boards

1967 won't run after 30 minutes

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  • Gene M.
    Extremely Frequent Poster
    • April 1, 1985
    • 4232

    #46
    Re: 1967 won't run after 30 minutes

    Originally posted by Joe Ciaravino (32899)
    I addressed that already in my last post. You would be wise to read it.
    Joe you are so right. I don't know how many replies I made when others chime in with long wind to say the same thing I already covered. Go figure?

    Comment

    • Joe C.
      Expired
      • August 31, 1999
      • 4598

      #47
      Re: 1967 won't run after 30 minutes

      Originally posted by Gene Manno (8571)
      Joe you are so right. I don't know how many replies I made when others chime in with long wind to say the same thing I already covered. Go figure?
      I know, Gene. And I empathize with you. Be patient and just keep doing your job. You are one of the posters here, along with a few others who never get their due. Probably because you are plain spoken and to the point. Remember that any blog like this one has it's various networks of friends and cliques. You are one of the "good guys" and you are highly valued for your work with Terry's schools and other activities at Regional and National events.

      Be thankful that our webmaster is wise enough to not use that bulls**t "thumbs up" and "Thank you for your useful post" crapola that they use over on that very popular other website. You want to talk about crony networks, good ole boy clubs and cliques........................in most of the cases, those with the highest number of "thank you's" and "thumbs up's" have had the least to contribute to actually helping people.

      Joe C
      Last edited by Joe C.; April 30, 2016, 07:21 PM.

      Comment

      • Larry M.
        Expired
        • December 1, 1986
        • 541

        #48
        Re: 1967 won't run after 30 minutes

        Two replies in this thread seem to offer contradictory views on the use of dielectric grease.

        One reply says use it to lubricate bulkhead connectors; while another reply says not to use it on bulkhead connectors, as the grease has insulating properties.

        Which should it be?

        Larry

        Comment

        • Duke W.
          Beyond Control Poster
          • January 1, 1993
          • 15667

          #49
          Re: 1967 won't run after 30 minutes

          Does it make sense to use an insulating material on low voltage electrical connectors?

          WD-40 (I think WD stands for "water dispersant") leaves a very thin film of the active ingredient once the petroleum solvent carrier evaporates, but the film is so thin it won't cause high resistance. Silicone grease is much thicker and can actually cause high resistance between the pins and receptacles.

          I use a very thin film of silicone grease on distributor and spark plug boots, which provides a good seal against moisture intrusion and also prevents the boots from seizing to the cap and spark plugs, but don't put any on the terminals themselves.

          I have a lot of experience with connector problems on the Cosworth Vega EFI system, both my own and that of others. Since some of the sensor voltages are less than vehicle system voltage and given over 40 years exposure to the elements a lot of guys have problems. Some have tried silicone grease, and it often makes the problems worse in addition to creating an absolute mess because any kind of grease is a dirt magnet.

          Those who have followed my advice to mechanically clean the contacts, then spray with electrical contact cleaner and finish up with a shot of WD-40 report no more problems, but not everyone listens to me.

          I recently had similar problems with my 42 year old sound system speakers. From the amp the four speaker wires go to miniature RCA jacks on the wall which connect to internal wiring that I installed when the house was being built in 1974. Another mini RCA jack is located near the speakers, so from the amp connection to the speakers I cleaned every connector as I described above. I also took down the speakers from the wall mounts and performed a similar operation on all the internal connectors and the high and mid range mechanical bias switches. It took half a day to do and I almost did in my back wrestling those 55 pound cabinets off and back on the wall mounts, but no more glitches and intermittent partial bandwidth cutouts.

          I made a note to give them a similar tuneup in another 42 years.

          Duke

          Comment

          • Joe C.
            Expired
            • August 31, 1999
            • 4598

            #50
            Re: 1967 won't run after 30 minutes

            Originally posted by Larry Maher (10731)
            Two replies in this thread seem to offer contradictory views on the use of dielectric grease.

            One reply says use it to lubricate bulkhead connectors; while another reply says not to use it on bulkhead connectors, as the grease has insulating properties.

            Which should it be?

            Larry
            You should Google "silicone grease" and "dielectric grease" as these two are very similar, if not exactly the same. Since I am a M.E. and not an E.E. I will defer to someone better versed in electrical theory and testing for any follow up. I can say, however, that silicone grease will not dessicate as petroleum based grease will, additionally, it has a higher melting point.

            I have never had conductivity issues, ever, for the last 20 or so years that I stopped using petro based grease and substituted dielectric grease on weatherpak connectors, bulkhead connectors, battery posts, and any and all electrical connections exposed to heat and/or moisture.

            Here is one such article:

            Comment

            • Larry M.
              Expired
              • December 1, 1986
              • 541

              #51
              Re: 1967 won't run after 30 minutes

              Duke/Joe,

              Thanks for the info; appreciate it.

              Larry

              Comment

              • Lee B.
                Frequent User
                • June 19, 2011
                • 94

                #52
                Re: 1967 won't run after 30 minutes

                I started with the easiest and jumped the ballast. No problems. Took the jumper off and the car won't run. I have the original ballast, a new one from Zip, a new one from Napa and they all read the same resistance. What should I see voltage wise? At the input for the ballast, I see 13.5-14 volts and on the output it is 9.5-10 volts with the car running. At the coil, I am seeing 7 volts with key on and 10 volts with it running.

                Comment

                • Lee B.
                  Frequent User
                  • June 19, 2011
                  • 94

                  #53
                  Re: 1967 won't run after 30 minutes

                  I started with the easiest and jumped the ballast. No problems. Took the jumper off and the car won't run. I have the original ballast, a new one from Zip, a new one from Napa and they all read the same resistance. What should I see voltage wise? At the input for the ballast, I see 13.5-14 volts and on the output it is 9.5-10 volts with the car running. At the coil, I am seeing 7 volts with key on and 10 volts with it running.

                  Comment

                  • Duke W.
                    Beyond Control Poster
                    • January 1, 1993
                    • 15667

                    #54
                    Re: 1967 won't run after 30 minutes

                    It's not clear to me what you jumped, but inspect and clean the bulkhead connectors.

                    Duke

                    Comment

                    • Lee B.
                      Frequent User
                      • June 19, 2011
                      • 94

                      #55
                      Re: 1967 won't run after 30 minutes

                      Duke, I jumped the ballast resistor and everything ran well. Sorry for not being clear.

                      Comment

                      • Duke W.
                        Beyond Control Poster
                        • January 1, 1993
                        • 15667

                        #56
                        Re: 1967 won't run after 30 minutes

                        So I take it you shorted the ballast by running a jumper between the two ballast terminals, and the engine quit when you removed it. That would indicate an open ballast, but you said it measured the same resistance as the other two. The data is inconsistent.

                        Swap in another ballast and see what happens. If the original does have an intermittent open it may be reparable as the guts are all exposed on the back side.

                        Don't worry about voltages for now. Find the high resistance or open circuit point. Do this by disconnecting the battery and measuring resistance between various points with the ignition both on and in the start position. Refer to the circuit diagram in the CSM to find test points.

                        The most common cause of your problem is the bulkhead connector were the ignition circuits penetrate the cowl. Many have cured intermittent ignition failure by removing the connectors and carefully inspecting and cleaning all the pins and receptacles. The ignition switch could also be the problem, but the bulkhead connectors are the most common cause.

                        Duke

                        Comment

                        • Joe C.
                          Expired
                          • August 31, 1999
                          • 4598

                          #57
                          Re: 1967 won't run after 30 minutes

                          It is now apparent that there's a bad connection somewhere, and removing the extra resistance of the ballast is just enough to keep the engine running. And with the voltage readings obtained at the ballast, I'd say the problem might be downstream of the ballast.

                          OP has to use a little common sense and process of elimination to isolate the problem. At this point I can say with 100% certainty that there is nothing wrong with the ballast.

                          Since the OP "had my father's car restored", I would look first at faulty wiring and/or connections. The bulkhead connector? Dunno? Maybe the car was stored outside or in a sauna since it was restored. How long ago was this car "restored?"

                          Comment

                          • Lee B.
                            Frequent User
                            • June 19, 2011
                            • 94

                            #58
                            Re: 1967 won't run after 30 minutes

                            Joe, I looked at the bulkhead connectors and the ignition switch and they were very clean, no corrosion at all. I decided to take some readings when the car was cool and after it got hot and started acting up. When the car is cold, at the input side of the ballast resistor I was reading a little over 14 volts and about 10.5 volts on the output side. The reading on the coil matched the output side of the ballast, 10.5 volts. When the car got up to temp and started acting up I took the same readings and found that the voltage at the input side of the ballast had dropped to about 12.5 volts and the output was at 8.5 volts. Once again, the coil voltage matched the output side of the ballast, 8.5 volts. Is my voltage regulator doing its job? And why would the voltage vary that much? What should I see voltagewise at these locations? 14 volts seems high.

                            Comment

                            • Patrick B.
                              Extremely Frequent Poster
                              • August 31, 1985
                              • 1995

                              #59
                              Re: 1967 won't run after 30 minutes

                              Sounds like the alternator quit working when the car got up to temperature.

                              Comment

                              • Joe C.
                                Expired
                                • August 31, 1999
                                • 4598

                                #60
                                Re: 1967 won't run after 30 minutes

                                Originally posted by Lee Bradley (53434)
                                Joe, I looked at the bulkhead connectors and the ignition switch and they were very clean, no corrosion at all. I decided to take some readings when the car was cool and after it got hot and started acting up. When the car is cold, at the input side of the ballast resistor I was reading a little over 14 volts and about 10.5 volts on the output side. The reading on the coil matched the output side of the ballast, 10.5 volts. When the car got up to temp and started acting up I took the same readings and found that the voltage at the input side of the ballast had dropped to about 12.5 volts and the output was at 8.5 volts. Once again, the coil voltage matched the output side of the ballast, 8.5 volts. Is my voltage regulator doing its job? And why would the voltage vary that much? What should I see voltagewise at these locations? 14 volts seems high.
                                If you have a noise suppression capacitor on the pos side of the coil, disconnect it, just to eliminate the remote possibility that it's grounding when hot. The voltage with the engine running is too low when hot. The alt should put out about 14-14.5 volts when the engine is running. Here's a good article on how to check the alt and regulator:



                                I'm leaning toward dirty contacts in the regulator.
                                Last edited by Joe C.; May 8, 2016, 09:22 AM.

                                Comment

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