New Upcoming Exterior Paint Judging Changes

[Bill L.]

Re: New Upcoming Exterior Paint Judging Changes

Loren, I think that sums it up.
If the bar is too high everybody whines and stays home. No ribbon chasers equals no cars to judge and no cash flow.
Bob Jorjorian

STILL A 30% Deduct Folks. Very reasonable! 50% was absurd when the original material has been basically made illegal. There is still a 100% deduct for a nice shiny "How I wish it was delivered" Corvette.

Bill

[Kevin G.]

Re: New Upcoming Exterior Paint Judging Changes

I am quite pleased given the fact that circumstances beyond our control have basically outlawed the lacquer needed to do the job like the factory. I also believe that the standards on paint need to be revised to reflect the lack of availability of correct metallic paint in a lot of instances. I further believe that even the factory metallics were not all that consistent. Paint can be VERY subjective regardless.

Frankly I would like to see a top flight award where a strong exception is made for paint. Kinda like a Bowtie car that is eligible for 1,2,3,4, or 5 stars. A 4 star bowtie award is still pretty darn special but can still receive a bowtie award with non original paint.

IMHO, for the NCRS to survive, they need to come up with creative judging and award solutions to account for paint and other parts that are unobtainable. Maybe a silver, gold, or platinum Top flight. Exceptions should only be made on stuff that is unobtainable at virtually any price.

Yes you can make BB/CC look a lot like lacquer but it still is NOT lacquer. If lacquer were available a lot of us could and would do the same quality paint in our garage as the factory.

Bill

Hi Bill,
In the nicest way....

Not only do I disagree with most of your reply you have, several incorrect words in this bolded quote...Simply because of availability of materials, the awards should be adjusted...? Remember, we judge to the APPEARANCE of FACTORY application. This can be and has been done using today's products, and quite well!

A Bowtie Award is a car that has earned the total of all four Stars. There are a 1 Star, 2 Star, and Three Star Award. The 5th Star is only available to the Bowtie car, and is earned by displaying the vehicle along with it's originality verified as unchanged. Next, there is a percentage threshold of 75% of original untouched factory paint that must be met, to earn the exterior Star. A car that has been repainted can not earn the Star.


I'll add, IMO every car (with very few exceptions) that has been repainted should receive an automatic 20% deduction. (Hide....) Simply because of the amount of paint applied!

[Mark D.]

Re: New Upcoming Exterior Paint Judging Changes

With the new paint standard, the guy who makes the effort to find, and spray, lacquer should be given 20 'bonus points.'
That way, just like tires, carpet, headlights and every other component; the cars with real stuff get more credit than the cars without.

[Mark D.]

Re: New Upcoming Exterior Paint Judging Changes

I'll add, IMO every car (with very few exceptions) that has been repainted should receive an automatic 20% deduction. (Hide....) Simply because of the amount of paint applied!

I could not agree more.

[Bill L.]

Re: New Upcoming Exterior Paint Judging Changes

With the new paint standard, the guy who makes the effort to find, and spray, lacquer should be given 20 'bonus points.'
That way, just like tires, carpet, headlights and every other component; the cars with real stuff get more credit than the cars without.

Now we are talking!

Bill

[Bill L.]

Re: New Upcoming Exterior Paint Judging Changes

Hi Bill,
In the nicest way....

Not only do I disagree with most of your reply you have, several incorrect words in this bolded quote...Simply because of availability of materials, the awards should be adjusted...? Remember, we judge to the APPEARANCE of FACTORY application. This can be and has been done using today's products, and quite well!

A Bowtie Award is a car that has earned the total of all four Stars. There are a 1 Star, 2 Star, and Three Star Award. The 5th Star is only available to the Bowtie car, and is earned by displaying the vehicle along with it's originality verified as unchanged. Next, there is a percentage threshold of 75% of original untouched factory paint that must be met, to earn the exterior Star. A car that has been repainted can not earn the Star.


I'll add, IMO every car (with very few exceptions) that has been repainted should receive an automatic 20% deduction. (Hide....) Simply because of the amount of paint applied!

.

My bad on most of the wording. I have read where folks mention 2 star bowtie or 3 star bowtie. This paint thing just drives me nuts since it is sooo subjective. The new adjustment seems quite fair as it attempts to account for money and effort spent trying to get as close to factory as possible. No two cars even came from the factory with the same paint jobs or same amount of material applied let alone the same gloss in the door jambs or anywhere else for that matter.

There is a survivor class for original cars.

I for one would be thrilled to win a second flight award if it is the result of my paint being too nice.

I like Mark's idea since it rewards those that have already gone the extra mile and succeeded in duplicating the factory paint. There are those who went the extra mile and just fell short. For those a 30% deduct seems very reasonable.

Bill

[Kevin G.]

Re: New Upcoming Exterior Paint Judging Changes

.

My bad on most of the wording. I have read where folks mention 2 star bowtie or 3 star bowtie. This paint thing just drives me nuts since it is sooo subjective. The new adjustment seems quite fair as it attempts to account for money and effort spent trying to get as close to factory as possible. No two cars even came from the factory with the same paint jobs or same amount of material applied let alone the same gloss in the door jambs or anywhere else for that matter.

There is a survivor class for original cars.

I for one would be thrilled to win a second flight award if it is the result of my paint being too nice.

I like Mark's idea since it rewards those that have already gone the extra mile and succeeded in duplicating the factory paint. There are those who went the extra mile and just fell short. For those a 30% deduct seems very reasonable.

Bill

Hi Bill,

No such thing as a 2 or 3 Star "Bowtie", to start.

The terms you are using here are also incorrect and have been trademarked by Bloomington, Survivor, Gold, Silver, Bronze (platinum) are Awards also related to Bloomington.

If I know Mark, the words (extra points) above have a small amount of sarcasm is included. That's what I interpret?

Subjectivity is removed with the CORRECT knowledge of a true factory paint application. That is where the problem lies. Very few actually know "how it should be". More examples of original cars are needed to teach this to the membership.

If anything, there should be something added to the system, it would be to have those with the real deal paint cars, awarded for bringing them out more often. Another Award program to achieve....As it is Bowtie is now "suicide".

[Michael J.]

Re: New Upcoming Exterior Paint Judging Changes

With the new paint standard, the guy who makes the effort to find, and spray, lacquer should be given 20 'bonus points.'
That way, just like tires, carpet, headlights and every other component; the cars with real stuff get more credit than the cars without.

If you do that, then a car with its' original paint should get a 40 point bonus, since preserving original paint is much harder than getting out your checkbook and paying for a repaint with original lacquer.

[James G.]

Re: New Upcoming Exterior Paint Judging Changes

Loren, I think that sums it up.
If the bar is too high everybody whines and stays home. No ribbon chasers equals no cars to judge and no cash flow.
Bob Jorjorian

I concur. If I remember the old days, AWARDS were generated in the BAR the night before JUDGING. I think we were all having ''FUN''

[Mark D.]

Re: New Upcoming Exterior Paint Judging Changes

If I know Mark, the words (extra points) above have a small amount of sarcasm is included. That's what I interpret?

Ya think?:-))

It makes zero difference if a product or component is, or isn't available; real should always get a higher score, regardless whether it's paint, brake hoses, air filter elements, shocks or anything else.

I kinda agree with Michael except, there's already a super bonus in place and it's called Star.

[Bill L.]

Re: New Upcoming Exterior Paint Judging Changes

Hi Bill,

No such thing as a 2 or 3 Star "Bowtie", to start.

The terms you are using here are also incorrect and have been trademarked by Bloomington, Survivor, Gold, Silver, Bronze (platinum) are Awards also related to Bloomington.

If I know Mark, the words (extra points) above have a small amount of sarcasm is included. That's what I interpret?

Subjectivity is removed with the CORRECT knowledge of a true factory paint application. That is where the problem lies. Very few actually know "how it should be". More examples of original cars are needed to teach this to the membership.

If anything, there should be something added to the system, it would be to have those with the real deal paint cars, awarded for bringing them out more often. Another Award program to achieve....As it is Bowtie is now "suicide".

Hi Kevin,

They still award stars as the owner works towards the Bowtie Award. A 4 star car without being displayed is still a 4 star car. We are really talking semantics IMHO.

Agree with bringing out more original cars.

30% is more than a reasonable deduct for someone that has gone the extra mile and fallen barely short IMHO. The 100% deduct is still there when needed.



Bill

[Joe R.]

Re: New Upcoming Exterior Paint Judging Changes

Really, do you think the only problem with restoring a Corvette or judging lies with the paint. You could not possibly get a top flight unless you use Trim Parts. Use original parts or NOS parts and see what that gets you!!!! Then again we are talking "what we wished our Corvette looked like" and not what those boys did at St. Louis. Notice I did not use the words "Union Workers" again! Trying to clean up my act!

JR

[Loren L.]

Re: New Upcoming Exterior Paint Judging Changes

"Trying to clean up my act."

Way, way too late, Joe. Suffer like the rest of us.

[Bob B.]

Re: New Upcoming Exterior Paint Judging Changes

There is a snowballs chance that after spending the time, effort and money to do a full frame off nut and bolt restoration on my mulsanne blue 70 convertible that I am going to apply a rotten blotch lacquer blue paint like the union boys shot in 70. My car was original paint when I got it, that paint looked like a Dalmatian it had so many color blotches. Even if I go out of state and spray lacquer- in 5 years it will crack. I painted all the door jams, engine compartment lips and deck lid underside "egg shell type sheen" to match OE, left a bit of orange peel (especially low) but did a good base coat clear coat with exact color and metallic match- what percent can I expect to lose on paint ?

[Roy S.]

Re: New Upcoming Exterior Paint Judging Changes

Come on guys were talking about a 14 point deduction at 30%, versus a 23 point at 50%, versus a 30 point at 70%. This obviously will solve all the issues. I mean you fluctuate from .3% of the total score with the 30% deduction to .7% of the total score with the 70% deduction.

neither is 1% of the total score so if the car was correct in every other way the difference is 99.3 versus 99.7.

I submit you cant see the forest for the trees, incidentally that the forest no longer looks like an original as built at the factory production corvette.