61 Corvette - Trouble with Final Door Window Adjustment

[Mike T.]

Re: 61 Corvette - Trouble with Final Door Window Adjustment

Hey Dan - Okay, now I get it. Tell me, with the original (ahem) factory mis-placement of that curved track further back than it should have been, there musta been a fairly large gap at the back-lower part and top front?

[Richard M.]

Re: 61 Corvette - Trouble with Final Door Window Adjustment

Rich - I did try loosening the two Phillips screws and shifting the track more forward on the door post but there was no change seen in the fit of the door glass to the post.

While looking at everything inside the door, I saw something that makes me think that the Auto City regulator might be a bit off. Check out the pic looking in on the lower rubber stop. My new regulator doesn't even contact the rubber at all. Instead, the regulator arm contacts the metal support for that rubber pad, inboard of the pad location.

Mike, That arm on the regulator is hitting because it's much larger than the stock arm. The large/main arm should hit the rubber bumper. This is when the window is down, but if the geometry is off on the regulator in the down position, it could be affecting other areas, like full up position.

I would remove the lower screw holding the curved track, then slightly loosen the upper screw(don't remove it), slowly run the window up and see if the angle changed at the top front.

From the AIM for reference. The small arm is quite narrow in this depiction.
MikeT_DoorAIM.jpg
At this point since the Auto City regulator may be a major player in the problem, and that I have no related info that could help, it may be wise to PM member Mike Coletta, as he has done many of these PW conversions on C1's. Not sure if he's used the Auto City units but he may have some ideas. Forward him a link to this thread so he can take a look. He may have a 5 minute(or less) fix for this issue.

Tell him I threw his name your way.

==

[Mike T.]

Re: 61 Corvette - Trouble with Final Door Window Adjustment

Good Morning Rich - Actually I did discuss Auto City power window kits with Mike Colletta. Early on in this project, I had been bending your ear along with Mikes and Frank Dreano's ears. Got a ton of useful and necessary info that got me moving along but I did get bogged down with this misalignment on the drivers side window and Mike said to call. Turns out of the '50' or so PW installations he's done, only maybe '2' were with the Auto City kits and they were a while ago. Nothing leaped off the page as a particular problem with their kits compared to others like SPW so his suggestion was to try to get the curved track adjusted better to see if that helped. In the end, after a bunch of small 'tweaks' here and there, the drivers door window is better and I'll call it 'good to go' but it's not as squared away as I'd like. The passenger side was always better but again, not 100% either but regarding window fit, I'm going to move on and now focus on the PW switch installation and the existing door panels were hacked up a bit. You'd know better than me, these can't be originals, right? If they are repros, they musta been the first ones ever made. I suspect some upholstery shop in Texas where this car was located for all it's existence before I bought it in '08 must have just added the upper metal reinforcement to their black cardboard panel.

As for the wide regulator arm, I think I might try to do a little t******* 'in place' with my Dremel in order to get the regulator to actually rest on the rubber pad like it's supposed to.

[Richard M.]

Re: 61 Corvette - Trouble with Final Door Window Adjustment

Okay, I couldn't recall if you talked to Mike. He is a master at these conversions. He could probably add a wireless power window do-hicky thingy with remote control and feedback circuits along with a rain-guard auto-closer switch that you could add and control it from your iPhone.

Yes I'd cut that corner of the short arm so it clears the bumper bracket. Did you try removing the short arm/roller away from the curved track in the UP position to ensure there is no bind there? It just seems if that short arm is "wrong" then I wonder if the roller is in the wrong location on the arm as a result, and is in a hard bind up top. Just a thought.

As far as the panel? Absolutely not original. It looks like the used the original upper metal on a new board. I don't think it was a AL Knoch panel as his were a lighter cardboard like original. These are recent but I've seen his logos on older panels that look similar from the backside. Like this....
P6080010.jpgP6080012.jpg

But since you're going to cut it open for a PW control switch, maybe it's just as well you're using a shop re-done pair. Are you mounting the switch in the stock location or in the area where the crank-hole is?

Rich

[Mike T.]

Re: 61 Corvette - Trouble with Final Door Window Adjustment

Rich - Regarding that curved track and the roller it captures, I backed off the retention screw at the bottom of the track and completely removed the upper screw and just let it 'float' when trying to raise the window those last couple inches thinking that it would 'find' it's true location but oddly, it never moved around as much as I thought it would so I just snugged it up while holding the window forward towards the post. Yeah, I had a feeling that those door panels were cobbed up by someone and not 'store bought repros' due to the hole-punched openings. The Auto City PW kit is supposedly based on the factory PW regulators so that means it uses the 'forward' set of 4 holes on the inner door skin for attachment. That also means the regulator mount plate covers over the old manual regulator window crank hole which means the PW switch uses the upper/forward factory location. Unfortunately, whoever made up these panels got carried away with cutting the openings and as you can see in the pic, the hole is quite a bit larger than the switch and it's retaining tabs. So, I made up a backing plate of thin steel and have that pop riveted to the black cardboard panel and the bendable switch tabs will now have something to grab onto. This is the pic showing the switch sitting in the oversized door panel hole. Once the new aluminum panels are attached covering the now obsolete window crank openings, the 'fix' won't be noticeable ;-).

[Ronald W.]

Re: 61 Corvette - Trouble with Final Door Window Adjustment

I had A similar problem on my original power window two top 61. It was the counter balance spring adjustment in the window regulator. Check to see if the motor works as easily going up as going down. Yours sounds like it isn,t getting enough tension from the spring to lift the window. To increase the tension,remove the spring from the regulator,rotate the spring half a turn tighter,and place it back in the slot.This isn,t an easy job. Best of luck;Ron Wilson

[Keith R.]

Re: 61 Corvette - Trouble with Final Door Window Adjustment

I too have been having trouble fitting my side windows to the hardtop so I thought that I would resurrect this thread to see if anyone has any new information or advice. I have a hardtop that did not come with the car which was restored by Glassworks. I've been trying to get the side glass to fit the hard top before fitting the convertible top and have been running into the same issue as the OP did originally although I do not have power windows. I took the advice previously offered in this thread and tried to isolate the problem by eliminating mechanisms one at a time. I removed both upper window adjustment stops first then detached the side glass from the regulator completely and moved the glass physically as high as it would go. In this position, the top glass frame is still 1/2" to 5/8" below where it should seat in the horizontal hardtop weatherstrip. A local NM Chapter member who has been a mechanic for many years and operates a local shop where he specializes in restoring Corvettes (mainly mid-years) attempted to help but became frustrated with the adjustment process as well. He suspects that the problem is with the hardtop and I tend to agree. My question is, what options do I have at this point? Should I try to reduce the height of the header weatherstrip to bring the front of the hardtop down further? Can spacers be placed between the hardtop and the horizontal weatherstrip to lower it to the height of the window? Should I just throw in the towel and have the convertible top fitted to the side glass and present the car for judging with just the soft top? Any advice is greatly appreciated.

[Frank D.]

Re: 61 Corvette - Trouble with Final Door Window Adjustment

So with the window stops completely out on the door ledge, and the horizontal garnishes removed -- that's as high as the window will roll up ?

Do you have the rubber rain seal installed on the window's horizontal lower section and is it trimmed properly ?

The problem I see is that if you "kick up" the top front edge of the window to mate to the hardtop better you will increase the gap at the rear lower vertical corner....

The front latches and rear "D" rings are adjustable via serrated plates...you could try to get the hardtop to "cant" forward a bit - but depending on how tight the latches work you could create other issues....you don't want the rear weatherstrip on the deck lid to gap...it might be worth a try though..

I might call Glassworks and email them that picture and get some advice - they've always been responsive to my queries...

[Richard M.]

Re: 61 Corvette - Trouble with Final Door Window Adjustment

Frank has some good ideas.

There might be some room for sideglass adjustment. You could also try loosening, adjusting, then tightening all of the window regulator and roller track screws and this may help raise the window slightly. But keep in mind that the sideglass is not designed to fit up and into the HT horizontal weatherstrip completely in it's U-channel. It's designed to hit the side of the inner horizontal weatherstrip lip. If the sideglass goes up and deep into the U-channel, it will hang on the outer lip when closing and opening the door.

But I think the problem lies in the hardtop header and sideglass weatherstrip thickness and hardness. This prevents the top from closing down on the windshield header properly, as well as preventing the door post top channel weatherstrip to seat properly. As the HT relaxes over time it could help compress it more. Other than reducing the thickness and pliability of the weatherstrip, I'm not sure what else could be done.

Rich

[Keith R.]

Re: 61 Corvette - Trouble with Final Door Window Adjustment

Thanks Frank. The horizontal garnishes are removed and the door stops have been completely removed as well. Your second photo shows a nice fit at the top front with the glass frame pushing the top post weatherstrip tab up nicely. Mine isn't doing that. I trimmed the rubber rain seal/gutters in accordance with the directions in a similar manner to your first photo but I'll take another look - perhaps that is what is causing the window not to rise as high as it should. I'll try calling Glass Works as well. I appreciate your advice.

[Frank D.]

Re: 61 Corvette - Trouble with Final Door Window Adjustment

Unfortunately I don't have a single picture of my 61with the hardtop on and the windows rolled up...the car has been sold so that's not going to happen. When I bought my hardtop the front header weatherstrip was as hard as plexiglass, I replaced it and even in repro form it didn't affect the window fit - but maybe later repro rubber is not as good; can't say...

One final thought....that tubular piping on the door post can "roll in" a bit and impede window movement - might look at that too...
See last picture.

[Keith R.]

Re: 61 Corvette - Trouble with Final Door Window Adjustment

Thanks Rich. I've been following your advice about isolating the geometry factors one by one and I think that I may have figured out the problem. I removed all the window mechanisms to include the curved roller track along with the regulator (and found a broken roller but that's a different issue) and left the window in place in its channels. I then tried to manually raise the window as far as it would physically go and found that it still stopped short of the hardtop horizontal weatherstrip at the front. The rear window frame went up completely and stopped when the lip at the rear of the sash met the top of the door skin. In feeling around for obstructions in the area around the front of the window sash, I found that the forward sash roller was not all the way to the top of the front guide channel that is attached to the inner door frame and the door post. So, I pulled out the front channel guide and found that I was able to push the window up further with a block of wood so that it would meet the vertical lip of the horizontal weatherstrip as you describe in your post (see the attached photos). This prompted me to compare the front channel to a spare that I had. There was a notable difference between the two in that someone previous to me had drilled out the upper tack welds of the spare and re-positioned the roller channel on the flat tab so that it was more vertical. I am thinking that Dan Bachrach in his previous post was right on the money. Re-positioning the channel track more vertically should allow the window to rise higher at the front. Although his photos are no longer accessible, his post describes this same process which apparently fixed his problem. I'm going to try the modified front channel guide and see if this makes a difference. Incidentally, the Corvette Central reproduction front channel guide appears to have the roller track more vertically positioned - photo attached.

[Keith R.]

Re: 61 Corvette - Trouble with Final Door Window Adjustment

I installed the modified front channel guides and the front top of each window now rolls up to meet the hardtop weatherstrip. The fit is pretty good on the driver's side although the rear window frame slightly overlaps the hardtop vertical weatherstrip. The problem I am still having is with the passenger's side. When that window is fully rolled up, the rear top frame of the window hits the stainless trim on the hardtop and the angle of the rear window frame is not matching up with the hardtop vertical weatherstrip. It is a closer match at the bottom but as you move up the frame it angles further back and overlaps the weatherstrip by a 1/4" or so at the top. Do any of you experts have a solution for this? I'm kinda at my wit's end and am wondering if I have to elongate the regulator holes in the door skin and try re-positioning the regulator? Any help or advice would be most appreciated.

[Richard M.]

Re: 61 Corvette - Trouble with Final Door Window Adjustment

I installed the modified front channel guides and the front top of each window now rolls up to meet the hardtop weatherstrip. The fit is pretty good on the driver's side although the rear window frame slightly overlaps the hardtop vertical weatherstrip. The problem I am still having is with the passenger's side. When that window is fully rolled up, the rear top frame of the window hits the stainless trim on the hardtop and the angle of the rear window frame is not matching up with the hardtop vertical weatherstrip. It is a closer match at the bottom but as you move up the frame it angles further back and overlaps the weatherstrip by a 1/4" or so at the top. Do any of you experts have a solution for this? I'm kinda at my wit's end and am wondering if I have to elongate the regulator holes in the door skin and try re-positioning the regulator? Any help or advice would be most appreciated.

Keith, Did you try adjusting the rear window stop?

Also... I wonder if you can move/tilt the top of the door post forward a bit.

Rich

[Keith R.]

Re: 61 Corvette - Trouble with Final Door Window Adjustment

Thanks Rich. I've tried adjusting it with and without the window stops in. With them out and the window rolled all the way up, the angle of the rear window frame is too far aft so having the rear window stop in would only make it worse in my opinion. The rear top of the window frame needs to come down and forward. I've moved the top of the door post forward about as much as it will go leaving a pretty uniform 1/8" gap between the door post and the windshield frame.

Keith, Did you try adjusting the rear window stop?

Also... I wonder if you can move/tilt the top of the door post forward a bit.

Rich