original side exhaust "u" nut cutouts in birdcage door sill

[Jim S.]

Re: original side exhaust "u" nut cutouts in birdcage door sill

Not to hijack this thread or subject but I'd like clarification on two things dealing with N14. Could N14 be ordered on a base engine car in 65,66,67? Could N14 be ordered on an automatic? Thanks.

[Julio G.]

Re: original side exhaust "u" nut cutouts in birdcage door sill

Not to hijack this thread or subject but I'd like clarification on two things dealing with N14. Could N14 be ordered on a base engine car in 65,66,67? Could N14 be ordered on an automatic? Thanks.

This is actually a good question Jim, and to build on your question, I'm curious in my case, could a car (AOS body) have had side exhaust ordered and installed at the dealership?

[Rob M.]

Re: original side exhaust "u" nut cutouts in birdcage door sill

Julio,
The short answer to your question is, yes. However, you could have it added now at a dealership and the result would be the same as far as NCRS is concerned - a complete deduct would be assessed because it was not a factory installed option. My AOS '66 had it added sometime in 1984 by the prior owner and I corrected it back to original in 2004.

[Julio G.]

Re: original side exhaust "u" nut cutouts in birdcage door sill

Julio,
The short answer to your question is, yes. However, you could have it added now at a dealership and the result would be the same as far as NCRS is concerned - a complete deduct would be assessed because it was not a factory installed option. My AOS '66 had it added sometime in 1984 by the prior owner and I corrected it back to original in 2004.

Hi Rob,
thank you for the input, I wonder if a well documented dealer install from when the car was brand new would judge any different? I'm going to proceed with restoring mine correctly, perhaps add the side exhaust on (correctly) at a later date post judging.
Regards,
Julio

[Gary B.]

Re: original side exhaust "u" nut cutouts in birdcage door sill

Hi Rob,
thank you for the input, I wonder if a well documented dealer install from when the car was brand new would judge any different?...

Why would you think a dealer install would be any different from an owner install? Both are non-factory. In articular, the dealer would not have the factory tooling to create the birdcage cutouts. Nor would an owner.

Gary

[Jim S.]

Re: original side exhaust "u" nut cutouts in birdcage door sill

I'll create a new thread with my question as to not hijack this discussion.

[Julio G.]

Re: original side exhaust "u" nut cutouts in birdcage door sill

Why would you think a dealer install would be any different from an owner install? Both are non-factory. In articular, the dealer would not have the factory tooling to create the birdcage cutouts. Nor would an owner.

Gary

Hi Gary,
not neccessary interested in the dealers tooling or quality of install, more just the documentation the dealer would have provided with the car when it was brand new, I understand it's not factory, just wondering if a hypothetical scenario such as this would ever be considered. Basicially If you had a window sticker from a dealer showing owner requested/added N14 when new, prior to pick up, on an AOS body that the car carried all its life, would it be considered at all in judging?
regards,
Julio

[Julio G.]

Re: original side exhaust "u" nut cutouts in birdcage door sill

I'll create a new thread with my question as to not hijack this discussion.

Technically, judging by the title, I think I may have already hijakced it!😀

[Rob M.]

Re: original side exhaust "u" nut cutouts in birdcage door sill

Julio,
The answer to your question should be, no. Any install after the car left the factory would be judged the same .... a total deduct. With an AOS bodied car, I can assure you a total deduct when being judged (ask me how I know). But, it's your car and if you love the side exhaust leave it. You can still get the car judged and have a lot of fun. Just be honest with yourself and be prepared to except the deduct at judging. Personally, I love the look and the sound (when I'm not in the car on a long road trip). Merry Christmas

[Julio G.]

Re: original side exhaust "u" nut cutouts in birdcage door sill

Julio,
The answer to your question should be, no. Any install after the car left the factory would be judged the same .... a total deduct. With an AOS bodied car, I can assure you a total deduct when being judged (ask me how I know). But, it's your car and if you love the side exhaust leave it. You can still get the car judged and have a lot of fun. Just be honest with yourself and be prepared to except the deduct at judging. Personally, I love the look and the sound (when I'm not in the car on a long road trip). Merry Christmas

Rob,
I understand, interesting there is no wiggle room on this one! I do like them, but it's easy to add after initial judging. I may as well do the car right, it would be a shame to go through all this work and take such an obvious hit! Merry Christmas!

[Don H.]

Re: original side exhaust "u" nut cutouts in birdcage door sill

Top Flight is attainable with added side exhaust.

[Julio G.]

Re: original side exhaust "u" nut cutouts in birdcage door sill

Top Flight is attainable with added side exhaust.

Hi Don,
Thank you for your input, very interesting, has there been any AOS bodies on record that have indeed received top flight status with side exhaust added? I have to read up some more apparently. The 66 judging guide is very short on this topic and it doesn't even cover AOS bodies with side exhaust.
regards,
Julio

[Jim S.]

Re: original side exhaust "u" nut cutouts in birdcage door sill

Hi Don,
Thank you for your input, very interesting, has there been any AOS bodies on record that have indeed received top flight status with side exhaust added? I have to read up some more apparently. The 66 judging guide is very short on this topic and it doesn't even cover AOS bodies with side exhaust.
regards,
Julio

IMO, it's not whether a AOS body with side exhaust has received top flight status because points were not deducted, it's whether a AOS car was able to retain enough other judging points to absorb the 100+ point loss from the added side exhaust.
Top Flight allows you to loose up to 270 points (+- depending on any extra points)

[Mike D.]

Re: original side exhaust "u" nut cutouts in birdcage door sill

Agree with Don on pictures in the wrong hands is not good. Owning a pipe car and a 300HP AO Smith car with added pipes, it is obvious to see the difference with covers off. I see the day we have the owner remove the cover during judging as we have had some tough calls at regionals on side pipes. Air cleaners, top ignition shielding removal makes judging easier. That 66 pipe car in Oregon had no clearance to see anything but it was good to see Bill C. get on the ground looking for notches.....

[Donald A.]

Re: original side exhaust "u" nut cutouts in birdcage door sill

I'm another Don in the thread (see post #6 above from 2015) and I posted some photos of side pipe notches that others thought should remain unseen. I disagreed then and disagree now, the information is out there and easy to find and has been for many many years. I remain of the opinion (and JUST MY opinion) that faking original birdcage notches would be extremely difficult and judges proficient in real side exhaust cars would/should know the difference. I also disagree that you have to take off the side exhaust covers to evaluate as is mentioned above in this thread. I have on numerous occasions examined midyear side pipe cars and can easily see if the rear notches are there. Examining both sides, the fiberglass cut outs in the area, the other mount areas and all the other tell tale signs of a real side exhaust car can usually allow a really good idea of original vs add-on. The photos I posted from 2015 were from a 67 I had then, now I have a 66, also a real side exhaust car. I thought I would post again in this thread to show one option for evaluating for originality of N14 cars regarding the birdcage notches. All it takes is a mirror (most all judges carry these with them during events) and a bright flashlight (see photo 1). Place the mirror on top of the side exhaust pipe tip angled up and in (see photo 2). Shine a bright light on the mirror and angle the mirror in until the birdcage is seen. If the rear most notch is there, it will be immediately apparent (see photos 3 and 4), and if it is absent that is also obvious. My camera did not do a good job of focusing in on the mirror's image but the view and detail in real time is excellent, and much better than is apparent in the photos (see photo 5). There will probably be another response of "oh good... more photos..." but I remain of the opinion this information is needed and helpful to those with N14 questions.