original side exhaust "u" nut cutouts in birdcage door sill - NCRS Discussion Boards

original side exhaust "u" nut cutouts in birdcage door sill

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  • Rob A.
    Expired
    • November 30, 1991
    • 2126

    original side exhaust "u" nut cutouts in birdcage door sill

    Can any one direct me to a picture (other than the assembly manual) showing the factory cutouts in the rocker panel for the "u" nuts that the side exhaust covers attach to? I can't remember where I've seen it, but I have. It's made with a special factory tool, if I remember correctly.
  • Harry S.
    Extremely Frequent Poster
    • July 31, 2002
    • 5273

    #2
    Re: original side exhaust "u" nut cutouts in birdcage door sill

    Rob, as I recall the cutouts (actually stamped out) is in the birdcage. Only St.Louis filled order for side pipe cars as AO Smith did not have the special machine needed to make the cutouts. I'm sure someone else will post a picture.


    Comment

    • Rob A.
      Expired
      • November 30, 1991
      • 2126

      #3
      Re: original side exhaust "u" nut cutouts in birdcage door sill

      Thanks...I wasn't aware of the difference between the two assembly plants...good to know.

      Comment

      • Rob A.
        Expired
        • November 30, 1991
        • 2126

        #4
        Re: original side exhaust "u" nut cutouts in birdcage door sill

        Since A O Smith bodies were sent to St. Louis for actual assembly...were the "notches" cut in there to accommodate the "u" nuts?

        Comment

        • Donald A.
          Expired
          • February 28, 1987
          • 243

          #5
          Re: original side exhaust "u" nut cutouts in birdcage door sill

          Originally posted by Rob Axel (20302)
          Can any one direct me to a picture (other than the assembly manual) showing the factory cutouts in the rocker panel for the "u" nuts that the side exhaust covers attach to? I can't remember where I've seen it, but I have. It's made with a special factory tool, if I remember correctly.
          Hi Rob, here's a couple of photos of the birdcage notches on my 67

          Notches 1.jpgNotches 2.jpg

          Comment

          • Donald A.
            Expired
            • February 28, 1987
            • 243

            #6
            Re: original side exhaust "u" nut cutouts in birdcage door sill

            Originally posted by Rob Axel (20302)
            Since A O Smith bodies were sent to St. Louis for actual assembly...were the "notches" cut in there to accommodate the "u" nuts?

            Hi again Rob,
            No AO Smith midyear cars had side exhaust - only St. Louis ones. So to check side exhaust originality, first thing to do is check the Trim Tag. If it has a St. Louis tag then side exhaust possible and many ways to check further, most of which are easily changed. However the birdcage notches are almost impossible to fake and therefore a very good place to check if the question is real or add-on side exhaust.

            Comment

            • Russ S.
              Extremely Frequent Poster
              • April 30, 1982
              • 2161

              #7
              Re: original side exhaust "u" nut cutouts in birdcage door sill

              Why don't we show more pics so every one can do correct fake cars.
              Originally posted by Donald Anderson (11172)
              Hi Rob, here's a couple of photos of the birdcage notches on my 67

              [ATTACH=CONFIG]62660[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]62661[/ATTACH]

              Comment

              • Rob A.
                Expired
                • November 30, 1991
                • 2126

                #8
                Re: original side exhaust "u" nut cutouts in birdcage door sill

                Thanks....I agree this particular modification would be almost impossible to duplicate and a good indication of factory installed side exhaust.

                Comment

                • Gene M.
                  Extremely Frequent Poster
                  • March 31, 1985
                  • 4232

                  #9
                  Re: original side exhaust "u" nut cutouts in birdcage door sill

                  Originally posted by Russ Steinhaus (5540)
                  Why don't we show more pics so every one can do correct fake cars.
                  Russ you make a very good point and that is the very reason I do not cover them in the Advance judging school. If one has a REAL side pipe car no discussion is required. If not then there is no need to disclose of there configuration.

                  Comment

                  • Harry S.
                    Extremely Frequent Poster
                    • July 31, 2002
                    • 5273

                    #10
                    Re: original side exhaust "u" nut cutouts in birdcage door sill

                    Gene, I agree with you. Isn't a correct fake car an oxymoron!


                    Comment

                    • Donald A.
                      Expired
                      • February 28, 1987
                      • 243

                      #11
                      Re: original side exhaust "u" nut cutouts in birdcage door sill

                      Originally posted by Gene Manno (8571)
                      Russ you make a very good point and that is the very reason I do not cover them in the Advance judging school. If one has a REAL side pipe car no discussion is required. If not then there is no need to disclose of there configuration.
                      Well I disagree, both with the poster who said "Why don't we show more pics so every one can do correct fake cars" and with the current comment stating a real side pipe car requires no discussion of configuration. This information is well known, readily available on the internet on multiple forums, and well described in the literature. None of this is secret or privileged data. The information can be very helpful to one who has a C2 and wonders if the side pipes are real or added, information that would be very nice to know before that person has the car judged at an NCRS event. The information is also helpful to those looking to evaluate or buy a C2, to identify add-ons vs original equipment. The notches are nearly impossible to fake, and thus a very good area to evaluate for originality of side exhaust. Just my opinion, obviously others disagree

                      Comment

                      • John D.
                        Very Frequent User
                        • June 30, 1991
                        • 874

                        #12
                        Re: original side exhaust "u" nut cutouts in birdcage door sill

                        The factory notching fixture had a distinctive method of die cutting the notches. Once you have seen a real one up close it's fairly easy to tell..

                        Comment

                        • Russ S.
                          Extremely Frequent Poster
                          • April 30, 1982
                          • 2161

                          #13
                          Re: original side exhaust "u" nut cutouts in birdcage door sill

                          Maybe-with the body off. Are you as a prospective buyer of a high dollar restored car going to talk the owner into allowing you to pull the body off to investigate?? I don't think so. The notches would be easy for me to fabricate and I doubt any one could tell with the body on the chassis .
                          Originally posted by John Daly (19684)
                          The factory notching fixture had a distinctive method of die cutting the notches. Once you have seen a real one up close it's fairly easy to tell..

                          Comment

                          • Rob A.
                            Expired
                            • November 30, 1991
                            • 2126

                            #14
                            Re: original side exhaust "u" nut cutouts in birdcage door sill

                            While I understand not wanting to provide information that will encourage, or allow duplicating factory side exhaust installation, I think sharing information like this to allow perspective buyers to be able to determine originality of "factory side exhaust cars" is important and appreciated.

                            Comment

                            • Gary B.
                              Extremely Frequent Poster
                              • January 31, 1997
                              • 6994

                              #15
                              Re: original side exhaust "u" nut cutouts in birdcage door sill

                              Originally posted by Rob Axel (20302)
                              While I understand not wanting to provide information that will encourage, or allow duplicating factory side exhaust installation, I think sharing information like this to allow perspective buyers to be able to determine originality of "factory side exhaust cars" is important and appreciated.
                              Rob,

                              An Don Anderson so correctly stated, photos of the notches and lots of discussion about them are already easily found on the internet. In my opinion, your request for images does not make it any easier for people to create them.

                              But I do disagree with Don statement that it's virtually impossible to re-create the notches accurately. Where there's a will, there's a way. And as others have said, with the chassis on the car it is very difficult to get a very clear view of the notches. Having judged a few side pipe cars, I know this from experience. If I were a betting man, I would wager that someone with the right skills and intent (and there are such people in our hobby) could create notches that would pass all levels of judging. And I bet that has already happened more than once.

                              Gary

                              Comment

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