327 & 427 for Same Car 194377S117307

[Steve B.]

Re: 327 & 427 for Same Car 194377S117307

Suing them for what?

I am sure that you know that a person can sue someone for just about anything. Imagine if the records do exist and all of this could have been avoided. I am not saying that this is right but people have a funny habit for blaming others for their mistakes and a case could be made that this information was withheld because of fear of frivolous law suits.

[Michael W.]

Re: 327 & 427 for Same Car 194377S117307

and a case could be made that this information was withheld because of fear of frivolous law suits.

Hence the phrase 'pretzel logic'. An excellent Steely Dan album too.

[Jaime G.]

Re: 327 & 427 for Same Car 194377S117307

Agreed, contrary to popular belief, there really are original 67 L71s out there that are intact.

Yes indeed, they exist and with proper due diligence and good advice, they can be purchased and successfully campaigned thru the system.
Like Roy said, dishonest people exist and we must always educate ourselves. Its continuous and should never end.

[Dennis O.]

Re: 327 & 427 for Same Car 194377S117307

...and Dark Green cars without bolt-ons & side exhaust. Can you imagine what a different hobby it would have been if engines would have been designated in the VIN like the '72 & up cars?

Hey! I bolted some side exhausts on my Dark Green car, so don't blame me!

[James G.]

Re: 327 & 427 for Same Car 194377S117307

My 2 cents is that the records exist for these cars. Maybe not in the conventional sense but through other means like, shipping, or zone, parts etc. My guess is that even if I were correct, GMs legal counsel would be advising them not to release them. I am sure that they are fully aware of what has been going on for decades not only with Corvettes but all Chevrolet products and if it was discovered that this could have all been avoided, there would be a line a mile long with people suing them.

I think the insurance industry had all the history from MSO until last owner....current owner. No one has ever tried to search that industry. The lawyers control it all

[Michael G.]

Re: 327 & 427 for Same Car 194377S117307

I think the insurance industry had all the history from MSO until last owner....current owner. No one has ever tried to search that industry. The lawyers control it all

Jim, you've got a point about the insurance companies. I remember going through the Allstate computer center in Southfield, Michigan in about 1962. Everything was computerized, they had vast banks of tape drives. Nobody ever dumps large amounts of computer data. It may still exist... Even if they only had the sales price recorded for a new insured vehicle, (which is likely) the options could easily be inferred...

[Bob H.]

Re: 327 & 427 for Same Car 194377S117307

What about the NCIB? National Crime information Bureau? I seem to recall significant information on the report I had on my 67 427-400. It was acquired by knowing someone in the right position. I believe this was information provided to a national database when the car was shipped from the factory. It provided a lot of information including the ship date, receiving dealer, numbers and much more

[Loren L.]

Re: 327 & 427 for Same Car 194377S117307

I have a couple of those, but mine included only date of shipment and to which dealer. Since then, it's my understanding that disclosure has been severely curtailed.

[David B.]

Re: 327 & 427 for Same Car 194377S117307

We started the hobby not GM. They were just making cars for a profit. I know a retired GM exec that spent months on assignment to look for old records. He went to every GM paper archive warehouse that existed, there were no records to be found. Nothing is hidden and nothing is held back. I believe NCRS has everything available.

Harry,
I am amazed at your comment. What "hobby" are you referring to starting? Certainly NOT car collecting. You make the comment about JUST making cars for profit sound like a bad thing. Personally, as a literature "freak" and attending swap meets in the Detroit area for years, I can assure you NCRS does NOT have everything available. One of the problems I see today is getting over this idea that everything written has been uncovered and nothing new can be discovered.

[Larry E.]

Re: 327 & 427 for Same Car 194377S117307

I think the insurance industry had all the history from MSO until last owner....current owner. No one has ever tried to search that industry. The lawyers control it all

I also wonder if checking with the various trucking companies has been exhausted? I worked in the trucking industy for 25 Years before retiring and
take it from me; THEY DON'T THROW NOTHING AWAY!. We might not get the "mother load" but I bet there is a "string" of VIN(shippers copies) info out there somewhere. Larry

P.S. When I first started in the industry I had to look up old invoices/bill of ladings and to my surprise they had them all the way back in the 50's!

[Paul D.]

Re: 327 & 427 for Same Car 194377S117307

I don't think Harry meant anything derogatory in his statement about GM. I feel that it's true that when these cars were being built and sold in the 50's through the early 70's, the focus of GM was on building a product that would sell and at a profit. That's what running a business is about or should be. They were not really concerned about maintaining records so as to document these cars over 50 years later! Now, however, every year seems to bring along a "Special", "Collector's", or "Anniversary" edition for which almost all documentation is available. Very few individuals relative to the number of cars sold had the presence of mind to save every piece of documentation associated with their new purchase. This is not to dispute the existence of documentation within GM somewhere, it just may be "stored" somewhere and forgotten. Chip.

[Larry E.]

Re: 327 & 427 for Same Car 194377S117307

[QUOTE=Paul Drennan (28344);740230]I I feel that it's true that when these cars were being built and sold in the 50's through the early 70's, the focus of GM was on building a product that would sell and at a profit. That's what running a business is about or should be. They were not really concerned about maintaining records so as to document these cars over 50 years later!

Chip: If that's the case please name one other auto manufacturer of any size that was not concerned(like GM) about keeping records. Larry

[Michael W.]

Re: 327 & 427 for Same Car 194377S117307

While we're beating this horse to death yet once again, can someone with a connection to the museum please get them to either substantiate or remove the following statement:

"Q. How can I obtain a build sheet for a Corvette built in St. Louis?
A. We do not know. We have been told by General Motors that all records from the St. Louis Plant were destroyed in a fire after the Assembly Plant was re-located to Bowling Green in mid-1981."

https://webservices.corvettemuseum.org/services/buildsheet.asp

[Michael J.]

Re: 327 & 427 for Same Car 194377S117307

Up until 1967, Ford had no interest at all in preserving and saving records on their cars. It took a legal secretary in corporate, Lois Eminger, to step in and volunteer to save them. That is how it started there. GM had no Lois. You can read her story of how records were preserved here:

http://automotivemileposts.com/tbird/tbird1957eminger.html

BTW, I had the pleasure to meet Lois and have her sign my invoice for my '68 GT500KR, she was a fantastic lady.

[Jim D.]

Re: 327 & 427 for Same Car 194377S117307

Up until 1967, Ford had no interest at all in preserving and saving records on their cars. It took a legal secretary in corporate, Lois Eminger, to step in and volunteer to save them. That is how it started there. GM had no Lois. You can read her story of how records were preserved here:

http://automotivemileposts.com/tbird/tbird1957eminger.html

BTW, I had the pleasure to meet Lois and have her sign my invoice for my '68 GT500KR, she was a fantastic lady.

Thanks to Lois, I was able to get the dealer invoice for my 57 T-Bird.