Replaced VIN Tag. How would this be handled by NCRS Judging?

[Jim D.]

Re: Replaced VIN Tag. How would this be handled by NCRS Judging?

Jim,Had a State issued VIN tag in the 70's from Kansas and the reissued VIN tag had State of Kansas printed on the it.Seems odd the Massachusetts wouldn't have a State issued VIN tag with the State on it.Gary....

Every "State Issued" tag I've ever seen was like that as well. The tag posted above was NOT state issued and could be done in anyone's garage on a scrap of aluminum. So, that raises the question to those that think it's acceptable. Does the paperwork make it more acceptable? If not, anyone could make a POS tag like that and have it accepted by the NCRS. If I saw a car with that tag, I would walk away.

[Terry M.]

Re: Replaced VIN Tag. How would this be handled by NCRS Judging?

I don't have detailed knowledge of the laws in the state of Massachusetts, but I was told that Massachusetts did not issue titles for 1969 automobiles when they were new. That didn't happen until some years later. I only became involved in these matters because of a prospective vehicle purchase that was never consummated. Could the events described by the OP have occurred before Massachusetts issued vehicle titles? Those living in Massachusetts, like our esteemed National Judging Chairman, would have more detailed knowledge of the dates involved in the change of the states vehicle titling laws, which might affect these matters.

[Domenic T.]

Re: Replaced VIN Tag. How would this be handled by NCRS Judging?

Every "State Issued" tag I've ever seen was like that as well. The tag posted above was NOT state issued and could be done in anyone's garage on a scrap of aluminum. So, that raises the question to those that think it's acceptable. Does the paperwork make it more acceptable? If not, anyone could make a POS tag like that and have it accepted by the NCRS. If I saw a car with that tag, I would walk away.

Jim,
My tag looks to be stainless, is yours aluminum? If you know any one with the talent to replicate one in their garage PM me.

Dom

[Rich G.]

Re: Replaced VIN Tag. How would this be handled by NCRS Judging?

The document in the photo authorizes the placement of a "motor serial number". It doesn't use the words "vehicle identification number".

Does that matter? Perhaps those words meant the same thing in 1970?

Rich

[Dave S.]

Re: Replaced VIN Tag. How would this be handled by NCRS Judging?

I don't have detailed knowledge of the laws in the state of Massachusetts, but I was told that Massachusetts did not issue titles for 1969 automobiles when they were new. That didn't happen until some years later. I only became involved in these matters because of a prospective vehicle purchase that was never consummated. Could the events described by the OP have occurred before Massachusetts issued vehicle titles? Those living in Massachusetts, like our esteemed National Judging Chairman, would have more detailed knowledge of the dates involved in the change of the states vehicle titling laws, which might affect these matters.

The Massachusetts Title law came into effect on September 1, 1972.

[Alan S.]

Re: Replaced VIN Tag. How would this be handled by NCRS Judging?

Hi Rich,
The way I see the document there is a choice of either 'motor' or 'serial' number; and the word 'motor' has a broken line through it (a couple of typed dashes?) indicating this is a 'serial' number.
Maybe?
Regards,
Alan

[Jim D.]

Re: Replaced VIN Tag. How would this be handled by NCRS Judging?

Jim,My tag looks to be stainless, is yours aluminum? If you know any one with the talent to replicate one in their garage PM me. Dom

I was referring to the tag in the original post. It appears to be aluminum and stamped freehand with stamps that are available most everywhere. It would take zero talent to re-create that tag. It's horrible.

[Michael W.]

Re: Replaced VIN Tag. How would this be handled by NCRS Judging?

Does the paperwork make it more acceptable? If not, anyone could make a POS tag like that and have it accepted by the NCRS.

What other purpose could that piece of paper have? If there's someone who knows that this is NOT the way that MA could have treated a replacement VIN tag in 1970, then that's fine, they should speak up. Otherwise.............

[Jim D.]

Re: Replaced VIN Tag. How would this be handled by NCRS Judging?

No problem whatsoever. NCRS recognizes state issued VIN tags without deduction.

What other purpose could that piece of paper have? If there's someone who knows that this is NOT the way that MA could have treated a replacement VIN tag in 1970, then that's fine, they should speak up. Otherwise.............

You missed my point Mike. I can't believe Ma. "issued" that tag. They may have said "Go ahead and make your own and here's a piece of paper that says it's okay". You say "No problem whatsoever" regarding the NCRS accepting that tag. I've seen many "State Issued" tags that the NCRS accepts and they all were official looking with the issuing state clearly on the tag. The O.P.'s tag looks like it was done by a child. So again - Is it because of the paperwork that you say no problem? How about if a car showed up with a tag like that but had no paperwork?

[Rich G.]

Re: Replaced VIN Tag. How would this be handled by NCRS Judging?

Hi Rich,
The way I see the document there is a choice of either 'motor' or 'serial' number; and the word 'motor' has a broken line through it (a couple of typed dashes?) indicating this is a 'serial' number.
Maybe?
Regards,
Alan

Alan

Good eyes! I didn't notice that.

Rich

[Jim S.]

Re: Replaced VIN Tag. How would this be handled by NCRS Judging?

Thank you all for your replies. It's clear there isn't a clear consensus :^)
Let me add a question. If you were interested in this car and it had no other "issues" that concerned you, would you buy it with that tag and the 1970 MA document?
I would add that the advertised price is not a 'bargain' price.

[Kenneth B.]

Re: Replaced VIN Tag. How would this be handled by NCRS Judging?

Thank you all for your replies. It's clear there isn't a clear consensus :^) Let me add a question. If you were interested in this car and it had no other "issues" that concerned you, would you buy it with that tag and the 1970 MA document? I would add that the advertised price is not a 'bargain' price.

Only if you plan NEVER to sell it. Then it would be a big problem.

[Steven S.]

Re: Replaced VIN Tag. How would this be handled by NCRS Judging?

Thank you all for your replies. It's clear there isn't a clear consensus :^) Let me add a question. If you were interested in this car and it had no other "issues" that concerned you, would you buy it with that tag and the 1970 MA document? I would add that the advertised price is not a 'bargain' price.

I myself would certainly not.

[Joe L.]

Re: Replaced VIN Tag. How would this be handled by NCRS Judging?

Regardless, I'd still want to know if the frame VIN stamping matches the VIN on the replacement VIN tag. How does anyone know that the Massachusetts DMV ever checked this? Knowing how things operate in Massachusetts (my home state), I HIGHLY doubt it was ever checked.

One other thing I find curious: the owner of the car apparently wanted to maintain the car's original VIN so he goes through whatever "hoops" were necessary to do so. Then, he creates a VIN tag that no one would ever believe was authentic?

[Jim D.]

Re: Replaced VIN Tag. How would this be handled by NCRS Judging?

Thank you all for your replies. It's clear there isn't a clear consensus :^) Let me add a question. If you were interested in this car and it had no other "issues" that concerned you, would you buy it with that tag and the 1970 MA document? I would add that the advertised price is not a 'bargain' price.

If I absolutely loved the car, it would have to be at a VERY LARGE discount to make it worth my while to go through the hassle of having a REAL State issued VIN tag assigned to it so it could eventually be judged without any questions. That would be after verifying that the frame VIN matched like Joe said.