Replaced VIN Tag. How would this be handled by NCRS Judging?

[Jim S.]

Short story...A 67 Corvette was stolen and recovered in a different state in the late 60's. VIN tag was removed. Insurance company stored the car for some time and finally sold it. Purchaser was able to receive a document from the state of Massachusetts for permission to attached a replacement tag that uses the original number. (It is unclear who actually affixed the tag.) The Massachusetts document has been passed on to several owners and the vehicle is now registered in another state with a clear title. Present owner has had the car for many years.
What if the present owner or the next owner chose to have this car Flight Judged. Would the car be rejected from judging?

(I have blocked the last four digits)

bLOCK MA VIN.jpgma BLOCK.jpg

[Michael W.]

Re: Replaced VIN Tag. How would this be handled by NCRS Judging?

No problem whatsoever. NCRS recognizes state issued VIN tags without deduction.

[Don H.]

Re: Replaced VIN Tag. How would this be handled by NCRS Judging?

Per the 8th Ed Judging Reference Manual Sec 2/Para 1.
Car must have correct attached Chevrolet VIN plate OR an attached valid state approved replacement ID plate that matches title or registration. A car appearing without identification as described [above] shall be ineligible for any NCRS judging.
I do not think the plate shown in the photo would qualify.



ps
in light of the post appearing above this one, I see nothing that indicates that the 67 vette wearing the crude ID plate shown in the photo is the same vette referred to in the State of MASS motor vehicle id certificate issued in 1970. The final call on this should be made by the National Judging Chairman before any judging of said 67 vette is attempted.

pps. based on post two below this one, I would agree that if the current owner has good ownership papers that show that Geo. M. Brown was a prior owner of the car in question, I would accept the plate, crude though it is, as belonging on that 67 vette. Without paper trail, I would fall back on lines above.

[Jim S.]

Re: Replaced VIN Tag. How would this be handled by NCRS Judging?

No problem whatsoever. NCRS recognizes state issued VIN tags without deduction.

So just showing the document issued from MA is sufficent? Interesting, I would not have guessed that.

[Michael W.]

Re: Replaced VIN Tag. How would this be handled by NCRS Judging?

attached valid state approved replacement ID plate that matches title or registration..

The document indicates that this is a state approved plate.

[Jim S.]

Re: Replaced VIN Tag. How would this be handled by NCRS Judging?

Per the 8th Ed Judging Reference Manual Sec 2/Para 1.
Car must have correct attached Chevrolet VIN plate OR and attached valid state approved replacement ID plate that matches title or registration. A car appearing without identification as described [above] shall be ineligible for any NCRS judging.
I do not think the plate shown in the photo would qualify.

The document reads that the owner at the time had authority to have the number placed on the vehicle, nothing is stated that the STATE affixed the tag.

[Don H.]

Re: Replaced VIN Tag. How would this be handled by NCRS Judging?

I agree, but without looking for hidden vin on frame, nothing indicates this car IS the same car that the document was made for. Unless the current owner has real paper trail showing George M. Brown was prior owner of the car we are discussing now. In other words, some plate was probably put on a 67 by Geo. Brown in 1970. But no telling if it is this car we are looking at now or that plate. That does not look on its face as a state approved replacement ID plate. At some point someone may have gotten his hands on the State of Mass document, and some other 67 vette, and made a new plate. I am picking nits here as an interested bystander. My opinion means nothing. If you are the owner of the car, write an email to head honcho and send your photos. Print out his reply and have it with you when you go to a Chapter meet, since he will not be there.

re. post two below, the plate in the picture is not a state issued VIN, it is a replica and a pretty poor one of an original vin. I could have made it with a piece of aluminum in my garage, and I have those rivets, too. We can see it is not a GM issued replacement vin plate either. I agree that the doc gave Geo Brown approval to put a replacement vin plate on his car. I just don't see anything to tie the document to the car that plate is on now, other than belief in the innate good intentions of mankind. I suspend my belief in man's good intentions when it comes to 1967 corvettes.

btw- if this particular 67 vette happens to be wearing a turbo jet motor, furgitaboudit!!

[Jim S.]

Re: Replaced VIN Tag. How would this be handled by NCRS Judging?

I agree, but without looking for hidden vin on frame, nothing indicates this car IS the same car that the document was made for. Unless the current owner has real paper trail showing George M. Brown was prior owner of the car we are discussing now. In other words, some plate was probably put on a 67 by Geo. Brown in 1970. But no telling if it is this car we are looking at now or that plate. That does not look on its face as a state approved replacement ID plate. At some point someone may have gotten his hands on the State of Mass document, and some other 67 vette, and made a new plate. I am picking nits here as an interested bystander. My opinion means nothing. If you are the owner of the car, write an email to head honcho and send your photos. Print out his reply and have it with you when you go to a Chapter meet, since he will not be there.

Good point Don. The same 'issue' would apply if a new owner were to register the car in a different state. If the 'tag' were questioned the document from 1970 may not mean much until the state could verify the car.

This possible confusion alone, I think, would keep me from purchasing the car.

[Michael W.]

Re: Replaced VIN Tag. How would this be handled by NCRS Judging?

I agree, but without looking for hidden vin on frame, nothing indicates this car IS the same car that the document was made for.

No different than any other car with a state issued VIN. Same for GM issued plates for that matter.

I've seen crude looking state/provincial issued plates before, each of which was perfectly legit. I don't think NCRS has yet developed a database that captures all possible permutations.

[Steven S.]

Re: Replaced VIN Tag. How would this be handled by NCRS Judging?

It will be interesting to see how this turns out. A gentleman in our chapter recently went through a great deal of heartache over a vin plate that looked very much like the one pictured here, however he had no paperwork like this to fall back on. IMO there is not enough to tie that particular home made looking tag to that piece of paper, and either way anyone trying to enter that car into flight judging should be prepared for a headache.

[Domenic T.]

Re: Replaced VIN Tag. How would this be handled by NCRS Judging?

Domenic Tallarita (51287);719333]

I got lucky and have a replaced vin tag on my 67. I posted this in another thread but the short version is that I had the original AS/IS bill of sale with the vin # on it, had the car inspected by CA highway patrol, was issued a CA title with vin# on it followed by CA at the end ov the #. That was all in 1971. I stored the car and did not register it since 1994.
Decided to do a frame up a few years ago so I asked a DMV employee how it could be done?
He said since it was not in their system because of non activity, I could apply for a new title requiring a inspection of the car. The body was off the frame, they looked at it, all my papers, and said it was OK. At that point I told them that I installed the tag and they said no problem, car looks great. Got the new title back WITHOUT the CA following the vin#.
lucky, yes, had a few good guys. Legal, I had all the papers starting from the vette dealer.

By the way, I forgot to post that I was up front and told them I was doing a restoration and wanted the vette to have a tag.


Dom[/QUOTE]

[David B.]

Re: Replaced VIN Tag. How would this be handled by NCRS Judging?

The previous owner appears to have complied with the laws that were then in effect in Massachusetts. The outcome seems to be the same as a replacement VIN tag issued by the state. The intention of NCRS is to honor properly documented actions of federal and state governments. I am interested to see if the title also contains a legend. But, on the surface, I see no reason why this VIN tag would preclude the car from being judged by NCRS. Dave

[Jim S.]

Re: Replaced VIN Tag. How would this be handled by NCRS Judging?

Thanks Dave, I will ask the present owner if there is any legend on his title.

[Gary C.]

Re: Replaced VIN Tag. How would this be handled by NCRS Judging?

Jim,

Had a State issued VIN tag in the 70's from Kansas and the reissued VIN tag had State of Kansas printed on the it.

Seems odd the Massachusetts wouldn't have a State issued VIN tag with the State on it.

Gary
....

[Jim S.]

Re: Replaced VIN Tag. How would this be handled by NCRS Judging?

Jim,

Had a State issued VIN tag in the 70's from Kansas and the reissued VIN tag had State of Kansas printed on the it.

Seems odd the Massachusetts wouldn't have a State issued VIN tag with the State on it.

Gary
....

I agree!
Also interesting to me that it's not a 'new' state issued VIN, just an 'approval' to attach an 'original' number.