Acceptance Criteria
So I thought about this for over a week and still cant get my "arms" around it and am hoping someone out there can lend some constructive ideas. I am just getting back from a great trip to KS where my little coupe was judged and top flighted. BUT that is not to say I did not have a question that even after speaking with the national team I do not fully understand. During operation testing the manual states that a quartz clock will sweep and a mechanical clock will tick (which mine did) however at the end of OPS testing I was asked to disconnect my battery at which time I was informed this is anew test and shows my clock is quartz. I have since removed the clock, and verified the judge is correct and the clock is a quartz clock. And am grateful to find this out now before I try a PV. however I am concerned when as an organization we say the judging manual is the standard/acceptance criteria then turn around and say that the judges knowledge over rules the manual. Further more and in my eyes more concerning the test methodology. I for one do not install my disconnect until after OPS to assure a good connection at the battery for OPS. On more than one occasion the disconnect stripped and seized and failed to close/open at a regional meet. At nationals when instructed to disconnect the battery I had to run to the trailer and get pliers/tools and pull the cable. Where does this end? If asked to disconnect the alternator to test the voltage regulator for solid state etc and gauge do you..? For the record again the findings are legitimate and save me from a PV failure and i cant thank the judge team enough for that but it seems we rely far too much on judges knowledge rather then the manual... except when the manual knows more... far too difficult to hit a moving target. in this day in age could we not do quarterly manual updates if there is new knowledge....? I have contacted the company who "rebuilt" my original and will have one prepared and back in car before TX....
-
-
Re: Acceptance Criteria
And, we also state very emphatically the Juding Manual is a "GUIDE" and nothing more. Yes, knowledge comes into play just like it does in life. If you have suggestions on how to improve the GUIDE please let the National Team Leader for the respective class of car know so changes can be discussed. If your suggestion affects ALL classes of cars, then David Brigham as the National Judging Chairman may need to provide clarification in Juding Reference Manual. Just my $.02 centavos and back to watching.Rick Aleshire
2016 Ebony C7R Z06 "ROSA" -
Re: Acceptance Criteria
Ronald,
You as an owner should know what parts have been assembled to your car. The basis of NCRS is the restoration and preservation of said car. If replacement, non original design parts have used in the restoration of your car then expect deductions. This may be solid state voltage regulator, quartz clock, urethane or epoxy paint, solid state radio, roller camshaft, radial tires or anything not of original configuration out side of the CDCIF judging requirements. Owners are quite clever in masking such non original configurations and judges need to be just as clever in detecting them. So my suggestion to you is DO NOT assemble any parts and assemblies on one's car that are not of original configuration. But if one does expect deductions. Power on and power off is NOT outside reasonable judging.Comment
-
Re: Acceptance Criteria
at the end of OPS testing I was asked to disconnect my battery at which time I was informed this is anew test and shows my clock is quartz - How does disconnecting and re-connecting the power prove/show the difference in the two clock????Comment
-
Re: Acceptance Criteria
I believe that a quartz clock will stop right away when the battery is disconnected where an original clock will keep ticking for a few seconds.Comment
-
Re: Acceptance Criteria
Kurt,
As stated quartz halts while the original retains movement for 1 1/2 minute cycle give or take if in its full cycle. Understand the original is energized by the point contact resetting the spring tension. This occurs with a audible click sound. A clever judge will just listen for the audible click reset and not require anything to be disconnected.Comment
-
Re: Acceptance Criteria
I believe the new quartz clock will move the hand just like the original. There is no noise tic/toc like the original. All the judge had to do is listen. This is what we do on C1's. If an owner does not want to remove the upper ignition shied, what do you do. The same here, if the owner says no and it moves like an original and you can hear it, it's a slash.
Comment
-
Re: Acceptance Criteria
A "clever" judge means a KNOWLEDGEABLE one!Rick Aleshire
2016 Ebony C7R Z06 "ROSA"Comment
-
Re: Acceptance Criteria
And a knowledgeable and clever owner will just wire in a tiny rechargeable battery to keep his quartz clock running while the main battery is disconnected.
Cat and mouse.Comment
-
Re: Acceptance Criteria
And then modify the clock again so it makes a click sound every few minutes..............
If we're going to start going past the visual appearance of items and start worrying about the innards of a clock being original, let's start with something juicy like engines. It's simple enough to pull a valve cover and start measuring cam lift, right?
Comment
-
Re: Acceptance Criteria
Hearing the wind-up of the spring can be a challenge if there is a fair amount of ambient noise -- as in side mounted exhaust. This was the case during most of the operations tests in KC. The cars were in the covered lower level of a parking structure and there was a number of cars running and driving near those conducting operations testing. The noise bounced off of the ceiling and made hearing subtle sounds difficult.
Unless the National Judging Chairman wants to draw a line in the sand that applies to everyone; it is up to the National Team Leader of each class to decide if such "edgy" tests are permitted.
I am glad Ron posted about clocks. I learned something today.TerryComment
-
Re: Acceptance Criteria
Mike,And then modify the clock again so it makes a click sound every few minutes..............
If we're going to start going past the visual appearance of items and start worrying about the innards of a clock being original, let's start with something juicy like engines. It's simple enough to pull a valve cover and start measuring cam lift, right?
It's just so much simpler to just use the original clock. There is info out there how to keep them running. Your idea of pulling valve cover involved disassembly which by NCRS rules is a no no. Listening for a clock points reset is no big deal. Placing ones head inside the car the clock reset audible click even I can hear it. And my wife tells me I don't hear her say anything to me........Comment
-
Re: Acceptance Criteria
it was a great learning before an attempt at PV. I truly thought the company who resorted my clock did it right.... it was done about 2007-2008 when I first started "campaigning the car". I can do mechanical work but not body or gauge work so I relied on a an outside company... and like they say when you assume.... the good news is it only cost me 25 points where ass at TX or FL and PV it would be load it up and head for home. I appreciated the learning... what I am still trying to get my head around is the sometimes the manual is a guide and sometimes it is a bible. As an engineer working with the FDA I look at things as "black and white" . And that was my error I figured that since the published test was non sweeping second hand = mechanical that I had the correct hardware. I live and learn.... and I have to give a shout out to the team leader, while we did not see eye to eye he did explain to me how things work... or did not work. I also want t thank Mr. Mickey for explaining how the internal hardware of a correct clock works such that I could come to agreement with what as being explained to me that differed than tat manual. Did not make the pill easier to swallow but helped understand the physics. thanks .... By the way the company who restored the clock now has the one off my other c2 to restore... you can guarantee I will check out the internals better next time.Comment
Comment