59 VIN tag on Ebay

[Loren Smith]

Tag for 59 # 358:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4576119639&fromMakeTrack=true

I think this is Corvette Specialties of Maryland's ebay handle. Wonder how long it will last before ebay pulls it?

[Marc R.]

Re: 59 VIN tag on Ebay

They have a bid.

[Jack W.]

Re: 59 VIN tag on Ebay

I don't think I have ever seen ebay pull a VIN tag auction, and I am not sure if selling one is de facto illegal

[Loren Smith]

Re: 59 VIN tag on Ebay

If I had to guess, I would bet no. 358 was long ago scrapped, with the ebay buyer to secure his own Alabama bill of sale title.

[Christopher R.]

Re: 59 VIN tag on Ebay

I've got one of them from a 1958. Had it for 30 years. Took it off a wrecked junkyard car in the mid '70s. I don't know what to do with it. Maybe I'll put it on EBay too.

[G B.]

Yes, it is/was illegal in every state.

Back in the seventies I got pissed off about ads for original Corvette VIN tags and titles appearing in Hemmings and Vette Vues. I researched and drafted an article about the illegality of it, and I wrote letters to the magazines.

Most sleezebags who buy or sell original VIN tags and titles argue that they are "document" collectors and never intend to apply them to vehicles. Yeah, riiiiiiiiiight.

Don't bother to look for my article. It was never published.

[Jim T.]

Re: 59 VIN tag on Ebay

It is now gone.

[Christopher R.]

Re: Yes, it is/was illegal in every state.

It's gone. You scared them.

[Jack W.]

Re: Yes, it is/was illegal in every state.

don't get me wrong Jerry, I don't know if I support the notion of selling VIN tags (my reasoning is aligned with what I niterpret yours to be - such are not bought as collector's items but rather to fake up a real car) but did your research turn up laws which clearly apply to this type of sale? Curious lawyer is all.

[Loren Smith]

Re: Yes, it is/was illegal in every state.

I don't see a moral problem with it, if it is used to title a resto-mod; i.e., like a tube-framed C1 with a modern drivetrain. Otherwise, the state will make you title it as a new car and it will be subject to emissions testing, etc. The state will let you title a brand new 32 Ford as a 32 Ford, but won't let you do the same with a new 57 Vette, which is bs. At least not in Texas, that is. As to legality, that might be a problem.

[John H.]

Re: 59 VIN tag on Ebay

eBay pulls LOTS of VIN plate auctions daily; it's a Federal felony to sell a VIN plate.

[G B.]

Jack, as close as I can remember...

The state laws I found were against selling state-issued titles for public road vehicles separate from those particular vehicles.

There were other laws (Federal?) against applying titles and/or VIN's from one vehicle to another. There were also laws against removing VIN plates from the vehicles to which they were originally attached. I do remember exceptions to the VIN plate removal laws for replacing major components, but I'm not sure now how they were worded.

Of course I'm paraphrasing what I remember using my own terms.

[Dave Morris]

Re: 59 VIN tag on Ebay

Would anyone have a suggestion what to do with a couple of old Corvette vins from 61 "IF" you had them. I mean I doubt the kids will want them and I would hate to just throw them away. Wouldn't they have some sort of a historical value, or interest, that they would be worth saving? To whom would you give them?

[Christopher R.]

Distinguish VIN Tags and Serial Number Tags

I do believe it's illegal everywhere to remove, sell, and generally screw around with VIN tags. Titles too. VIN tags being defined as that hunk of metal that contains the VIN. VIN being defined as that number assigned by the vehicle OEM for purposes of complying with some Federal law designed to combat vehicle theft and about which I'm not too familiar. That law also specifies the numbering protocol.

But these tags may not be considered VIN tags. Chevrolet never intended for them to comply with some law that wasn't even written when they affixed them. Chevrolet intended for them to be serial number tags. That's why they are not permanently affixed like the VIN tags we know today. This is not a meaningless distinction. The VIN tag and law are designed to combat theft. The law requires today's VIN tag to be a not-easily-removed part of the car. The C1 Corvette serial number tags unscrew from the door jamb or fall off the steering column. The purpose of these tags was not to deter theft. I don't know how law enforcement could consider these things as having anything to do with the prohibitions in the VIN tag law.

So maybe the tag per se is innocent. But what about your intent? If you buy the tag; put it on a car; and go to your state's Registry of Motor Vehicles to get another title or register the car, you've just committed fraud, and they'll be real mad at you. So mad, they'll prosecute you for something in that state's criminal code. Take the car away too. That's black and white. When you fill out the form that asks for VIN you will use the serial number on the tag and that number does not belong to the car. There can be only one reason that you put those numbers on the form, and that's fraud. You may be able to buy the tag. But you can't use it to register another vehicle. The cops do know about the serial number being stamped in the frame.

So even if it's OK to buy and sell these tags, you can't do it with a criminal intent. Do you have a criminal intent when you pay more than a nominal amount for it? "But your honor, I had no idea the buyer was going to do something bad with my tag. I thought he gave me $500 for a little piece of metal because the serial number on it had sentimental meaning for him." Maybe that'll work if the judge follows parts prices on EBay.

[Jack W.]

Re: Jack, as close as I can remember...

Following up on Jerry's advice and John's post regarding the felony nature of the offense, here is the relevant info, should you all wish to be informed of the possible consequences of tampering with, altering or removing vehicle identification numbers - such carries a maximum prison sentence of five years and a maximum fine of $250,000

18 U.S.C. Section 511

suggest you also look at 18 U.S.C. Section 512 also, regarding forfeiture of such items.

Here is Section 511:

http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode18/usc_sec_18_00000511----000-.html