Retro tires

[Duke W.]

Re: Retro tires

The final production process for Vega blocks was electrochemical etching, which was supposed to remove about a half-mil of aluminum from the surface leaving a hard silicone wear surface, but early on the etch was inconsistent. The process took about 30 seconds.

The "silicon lap" was a field refinishing procedure, but was not used in production for Vega blocks.

Duke

[Duke W.]

Correction: SILICON, not silicone *NM*

[Duke W.]

Re: Fable?

You're in luck! Beginning in 1976 the corrosion resistant properties of the Vega bodies was increased to the best standards in the industry at the time. Zincrometal (inside zinc plated) replaced plain steel for the front fenders and some other panels and plastic front inner fender liners were added - just a couple of the significant enhancements.

People love to bash Vegas, but when was the last time anyone saw a Audi 100LS. Rememeber that car? It cost almost twice as much as the Vega, but it's arguable which engine was rougher or disintegrated faster, and period BMWs weren't far behind. It was rare for an owner to get more than 12K miles on a set of the 100LS' inboard front brake pads. Somehow Audi never got called on the consumer carpet for this expensive POS. Their donnybrooke was the 5000, and eventhough the allegations against the 5000 were utterly false, it was poetic justice.

My Cosworth Vega is rust free. My neighbor's '77 Corvette's birdcage is starting to rust!

Duke

[Dick W.]

Re: Fable?

Ain't nobody ever accused this "hillbillie" of a bein' too smart! Just good lookin'

[Mark #28455]

Re: Fable?

I had two of the Monza's with small block engines. I was working at a speed shop while in college and built a 400 block with 350 crank and 461 casting heads. That car was fast - I had it over 150 at the track. My buddy had a Vega with a similar motor. We didn't lose a lot of races, but the cars wouldn't corner well at all.

[Mike M.]

Re: Retro tires

When I lived in CA, my neighbor and I bought at least six '71 to '74 GT's for peanuts. My neighbor had a boring bar so we sleeved the engines with the Sealed Power kit and sold them at a decent profit.
What I found wrong with the Vega's mechanically:
- the earliest used a 12" by 12" radiator with no overflow tank. One hot engine run was enough to cause the "open deck" cylinders to go egg shaped. The close piston tolerances quickly eliminated the silicon "plating" and the fun began. GM later added an overflow catch tank and finally the 12" x 24" radiator.
- GM never solved the oil seal issue with the valve stems. The seals wore out about as fast as they could be replaced.
- The Opel four speed in the '71 & '72's was weak. '73 up used Saginaws.
I also converted two GT's to BOP 215 aluminum V8's (1- Olds & 1 - Buick). Really nice car. Well balanced and reasonably quick.

Mike

[Mark Ring]

Re: Retro tires

I ran a powder blue 76 Vega turkeyback sedan for a few years as a winter car. It always started right up and drove away without a hitch. Near perfect weight distribution for snowy climates. Would run very well up to ridiculous speeds with that 2.5 or so rear gear and a 3 spd stick. Cost me $600 at the time and I would buy one of those again at that price. Most of the Vega quirks had been re-engineered out by previous owners so it was a pleasure to bang around in and drive to work.

The body looked good but the rust ate it up bad underneath. One day the drivers door fell off on the ground at the grocery store as I opened it to get out. I slammed it back on and went inside to do my business. A few chuckles at the checkout but I kept a straight face. Climbed in on the passenger side. The latch held long enough to get home. Replaced the door and it ran a little longer till the engine gave out. Something let go in the valvetrain and I drove it to the "Automotive Recycling Center".

Not a bad car at all if you changed a few things. Vegas were very different from anything else GM made. It was like it was developed in a vacuum away from any other product. Efficency taken to a new level.

-Mark.

[Duke W.]

Re: Retro tires

All base Vegas from '71 to '77 had the 12x12 raditor. A 12x18 core size radiator was included w/C60 and available as a stand alone heavy duty option, and it was base on Cosworth Vegas. The addition of a coolant recovery system was a condition to receive a refund under the "secret warranty" problem, and it was added in production by at least '76 if not before.

The silicon cylinder walls were not "plating". The 21 percent silicone content of the block results in clumps of silicon distributed throughout the material. After boring an honing to final size the etching process removed about a half mil of aluminium leaving a pure silicon wear surface. If the engine is not overheated and the etch is consistent so the rings don't tear off aluminum and score the walls the bores will last virtually forever as the wear rate is about 1/5 of cast iron cylinders.

If you look at the cylinder walls with magnification they have have a mottled grey appearance with small, dark splotches scattered throughout. The latter are the silicon particles

Duke

[Mike M.]

Re: Fable?

What would really be interesting is any 5.7 Diesel equipped cars were purchased and stored.
I drove one with the original engine for over 200k. But with 3 head gasket changes and two sets of heads. I got good at rebuilding Roosamaster injection pumps too. Saving grace, over 25 mpg around town in an '83 Eldo. Car is gone, but still have my "spare" engine (later block, not earlier N code), yours for the asking.
Mike

[G B.]

"Not a bad car if you change a few things."

Well... other than the engine, transmission, radiator, and body, what do you need to change?

[Mark Ring]

Re: "Not a bad car if you change a few things."

The fuel pump in the tank was problematic too. Carter electric fuel pump in the engine compartment worked better. There were improvements in several areas by 1976 but the handwriting was on the wall by that time.

If you ever needed to remove and replace the doors on a Vega you would love the design. You do not even need a wrench, just a hammer and a drift. The hinges are non-adjustable and jig welded. All you do is hammer out the 2 pins and the door comes off. Instalation is the opposite. No alignment chores what so ever. Not as easy as pumping gas but close.

-Mark.

[Michael H.]

Only need to change one thing.....

Jack up the radiator cap and slide a different kind of car under it. Then the Vega would be a reasonably dependable mode of transportation. Just keep an eye on the cap for a while. I was (lightly) involved with Vega group in 71 and there's really not much good that I can say about that car.

[Mike M.]

Re: Retro tires

I guess what we bought all had the optional 12 x 18 radiator, I only saw a couple of '71's with the 12 x 12. And that may have worked just fine if the overflow tank was included. Age is getting to me. The 12 x 24 was a size I had built for the V8 conversions (3 row).

[Duke W.]

Re: "Not a bad car if you change a few things."

Only bad part of that design is that the bushings wore, but it was easy to take the door off and replace them. I replaced the drivers side on the CV about 15 years ago. Pass. side are still original and tight. With the side guard door beams those doors are HEAVY!

This was one of the innovations to reduce production cost. No door hinge adjustement was required - just the stricker plate and most fit okay.

The later Vega intank pumps were more reliable and most modern cars now have an intank high pressure pump to feed the EFI system. Many foreign OEs use linerless aluminum blocks that are a development of the GM/Reynolds technology. The Vega had a lot of innovations that just needed a little more bake time.

Duke

[GL Anderson]

Re: Only need to change one thing.....

I bought a Cosworth Vega (#1331) new and still have it. NO rust ever, no problems ever, even with more than 100 autocross wins on all levels. Have had it past 9000 rpms many times. I will admit that the early Vegas had problems but Chevrolet did get the car right just in time to cancel production. Kinda like the Fiero and the Corvair. My twin brother was autocross SCCA National Champion in his "unsafe at any speed" Corvair. Now he has a Cosworth Vega. Just my experience. GL