1962 stailess exhaust points loss

[Roy B.]

Re: These arguments are a trip...

Lets see a standard is showroom new as factory delivered NCRS judging. So how can a Corvette that is said to be in couraged to drive stay showroom new for judging? How do you say trailer queen? I give up! and mean no dis-respect.

[Dave McDufford]

Re: 1962 stailess exhaust points loss

To repeat what was commented on earlier, I do not see the relationship between driving a car and having stainless steel exhaust. What makes you think you require stainless steel to drive it?

Also I think stainless steel brake lines are a mistake. Stainless steel is much harder than carbon steel and makes getting a good seal with the flared fittings difficult. I would rather have properly torqued and sealed carbon steel brake fittings than rather than over torqued, kind of sealed, leaking slightly stainless steel fittings.

Dave

[Chas Henderson #28127]

Re: 1962 stailess exhaust points loss

To all,
I have restored my car and drive it to the meets. I also have steel belted radials and stainless steel echaust tips. I have never gotten less than a 97% injudging and thats with out the driving bonus. I don't like to call my car a daily driver ohthough I drive it year round to work on nice dry days. I live in Indiana and there are lots of nice days in the winter to drive it. When my carbon steel exhaust system rust out, I will buy a new corbon steel one and install it. I love to drive my car and yes, you get rock chips and yes, the car gets dirty. I clean the underside of the car two-three times a year and touch up what needs to be done. I do happen to enjoy working on the car and by getting it judged, it helps to keep my 71 as "like new condition." I understand the ncrs rule book, and I play by their rules.
Don't worry so much about the points or what color ribbon you get. Drive the damn thing and wear it out, then fix it. The car will probably out last you anyway. And if you are like most of us, you widow will wind up with it be for you ever get around to selling it.

[John H.]

Re: These arguments are a trip...

That's why the judging sheets have been revised with one "Overall Cleanliness" item at the end of each section instead of trying to deal with the relative cleanliness of each individual line item; I think most judges really appreciate seeing a really clean undercarriage, but by the same token, the same judges understand that a "driven" car won't be surgically clean, and don't get real anal about it. I don't.

[Donald M.]

Re: Are we all happy

Roy, I'll jump into the fray here. I thought, and I joined NCRS because of this fact, that your car is judged vs. the standard set down in the JG, NOT any other Corvette in the world. Being "competitive" is making your vehicle as "correct" as humanly possible within your ability and/or means.The trailered car is simply the extreme permutation of this fact. The idea of car v. car is common in about every other type car show/concours.In other organizations,usually,cleanliness along with flash (chrome!) is the determining factor. By the way , trailered units with no fluids should have a heavy point deduct,as the cars were delivered with fluids.
I guess what I'm saying is that trailered cars are good and driven cars are good along with Survivors, etc. Each in their own way they contribute mightily to the hobby.

[Mike M.]

Re: Are we all happy

Roy: I'm # 14 and i DROVE my 67 435 from Cumberland to St. louis when it was a Duntov candidate. it got the award and i drove it home. Granted most duntov candidates show up in their box trailers but not all. And i'd be happy to judge your car(s) regardless of their condition. regards, mike

[Mike M.]

Re: 1962 stailess exhaust points loss

most mid-year chassis judges carry a magnet with them when judging the brake/fuel/ exhaust systems. mike

[John M.]

Re: 1962 stailess exhaust points loss

Mike,
I know judges who do that, but I am not sure that this is right. I think that if a judge can't tell by looking at it then it should pass. The intent of the standard is if a part APPEARS to be correct. This adds an additional problem for cars that were originally equipped with plain carbon steel pipes. A car tha has had aluminized pipes installed and blacked out will get full credit since the magnet will stick, but a stainless car will get the deduct because thw magnet will not. The aluminized car would have been subject to deducts if not blacked out but avoids the deduct, but a stainless car does not. Do we allow judges to scrape away a little paint from the exhaust pipes to tell if is is truly carbon steel under there. It gives me real heartburn when a couple of years ago judges started peeling back the fuel door bumpers on C1 cars to see if paint was under them. I think that this is a matter of judges feeling that they just have to find something wrong with a car. As the the restoration of these cars gets better and better some judges just feel compelled to push the envelope.

Regards, John McGraw

[Dave Suesz]

Nobody's using original C1 pipes anyway...

The C1 exhaust system was plain steel with a thin coating of asphalt paint. The paint would start to burn off as soon as the engine was started, so they probably had rusty exhaust when still in the showroom. Today's steel systems are almost always aluminized, so they should be penalized similarly to stainless, although I doubt they ever are. To be truly original at a show, you should have black painted tailpipes, blistered paint on the mufflers, and rusty exhaust pipes. Ever seen a show car like this? I don't think so. You want stainless? Go ahead, I probably will switch to it someday. Don't worry about the points. Oh, and don't worry about that expansion/discoloration thing either, it's a crock.

[Mike M.]

Re: 1962 stailess exhaust points loss

john: i don't have a problem using a magnet if and only if the owner allows me to. If i suspect a fuel line is ss, i mention the fact i suspect its ss and invite the owner to prove me wrong by applying the magnet.I'm wrong about 5% of the time on brake and fuel lines.mike

[Dave Suesz]

Had a guy asking for an NOS air filter once...

Seems a judge took the lid off his '68 Mustang to see if the filter was "gennie". First judge starts taking my car apart is looking for a fat lip. 'Nuff said.

[Mike M.]

Re: Nobody's using original C1 pipes anyway...

Dave: back in 84 when i was restoring my 57 FI, i choose stainless(before the judging manual came down hard on ss). the system, from Zierden, does expand , about 1/2 to 3/4" at the tailpipe as it exits the Exh. bezel. If the ss tailpipe isn't expanding the 1/2 to 3/4", then the rear clip has to be shrinking an equal amount. regards, mike

[Dave Suesz]

I gotta think your hangers...

can handle the change, especially since they are not at the rear of the car. The extensions on my car are, of course, attached to the body, and the tailpipes slide into them. With a little care on the bends, I should think even 1" would be no problem. You could see the 56-60 tailpipes, but the same rule should apply to all.

[Tracy C.]

Disassembling a Ford on the judging field is

no big deal Dave. These things routinely fall apart anyway. The judge was probably puting it back together and didn't want to embarass the owner, so he made up the line about "checking the air filter" as a cover.

Corvette Judges and the car owners should never find themselves in this type of a situation.

[Mike M.]

Re: I gotta think your hangers...

Dave: what i meant to state was that the tailpipes grow linearly @ 3/4" when hot. if i measure the length of tailpipe protruding thru bezel when cold, once the car has been driven to own and bac, one can remeasure length protruding thru bezel and its 3/4" further out the vback of the car.mike