Broach Busters Inspection Scope - your thoughts?

[Vinnie P.]

Re: Broach Busters Inspection Scope - your thoughts?

I don't need a flashlight or a monocular. I can stand straight up and see every detail of the pad with my naked eye. Sometimes, just to make it sporting, I wear a blindfold. I will say, if it's totally dark and there is kryptonite close by, I might have to squint.

Heard you fly blind quite regularly!

[Mark D.]

Re: Broach Busters Inspection Scope - your thoughts?

That's true but, my balance is so acute, I don't really rely on the instruments.

Stay thirsty my friends,

Kramden

[Gene M.]

Re: Broach Busters Inspection Scope - your thoughts?

................... Nothing is "standard issue" for judges. We all have our favorite lights or clipboards or vision assisting devices and they can run the gamut from crude to sophisticated. It is all for fun anyway, Right?

Try to think of it from the owner's perspective. Isn't it getting a bit too ridiculous going to the extent of using the latest in electronic equipment just to flight judge cars? At the time these cars were built a transistor radio was high tech.

From my perspective I HATE the electronic gadgets taking over everything. High school kids can't even give change without the register telling them how much.

[Terry M.]

Re: Broach Busters Inspection Scope - your thoughts?

Try to think of it from the owner's perspective. Isn't it getting a bit too ridiculous going to the extent of using the latest in electronic equipment just to flight judge cars? At the time these cars were built a transistor radio was high tech.

From my perspective I HATE the electronic gadgets taking over everything. High school kids can't even give change without the register telling them how much.

[Larry E.]

Re: Broach Busters Inspection Scope - your thoughts?

Terry M. Wrote:

If the owner "doesn't know" I think s/he should be grateful we use every method at our disposal to help educate that owner. We should be sharing what we view with the owner. It is the mystery that increases the anxiety level because owners, and other people, tend to think the worst of what they don’t know.

This brings me to one of my previous post. All good and well to know where you stand. But if the owner truely does not know about his trim tag and one of
these new gismo's say it is not original--then the car is banded for life as a counterfeit. Why would anybody take that risk to get judged is beyond me.

I still believe there should be sometype of a "prejudge option" for the owners. If declaired not original he should have the right to leave the field before any official banishment is declaired. Larry

[Patrick H.]

Re: Broach Busters Inspection Scope - your thoughts?

This brings me to one of my previous post. All good and well to know where you stand. But if the owner truely does not know about his trim tag and one of
these new gismo's say it is not original--then the car is banded for life as a counterfeit. Why would anybody take that risk to get judged is beyond me.

Larry

The Trim Tag book is readily available for purchase by anyone who wants to examine their own tag. In addition, some of the features that distinguish an original from a reproduction are visible with the eye. As such, no additional technology is needed - provided your vision is up to the task.

Patrick

[Terry M.]

Re: Broach Busters Inspection Scope - your thoughts?

Larry,
When the Trim Tag book came out the electronic gizzmos for the most part were too expensive for us amatures to use. THe photos in the bood were taken with photo equipment, on film, that had been available for a generation. There is no need for anything new to be used there. A digital camera will allow for the easy education of the owner and judges by the Team Leader, but it is not necessary for that assment. In my comments I was thinking of the stamp pad. If you chose to use Al Grenning as a resource for that area, I can tell you the bulk of his "Stamp Pad Library" was colloected with a SLR camera on film. He was polite enough to ask owner's permission to take those photos and as NTL I was often beside the owners when he did his thing.

The new gizzmos make it easier, but the base of the research predates the new technology. But the research has continued using the new technology. The new flat digital cameras finally allow us to get good images of the C3 Trim Tags. Psst Buddy, want to see my collection of Certification Label pictures?

[Gene M.]

Re: Broach Busters Inspection Scope - your thoughts?

Larry,
When the Trim Tag book came out the electronic gizzmos for the most part were too expensive for us amatures to use. THe photos in the bood were taken with photo equipment, on film, that had been available for a generation. There is no need for anything new to be used there. A digital camera will allow for the easy education of the owner and judges by the Team Leader, but it is not necessary for that assment. In my comments I was thinking of the stamp pad. If you chose to use Al Grenning as a resource for that area, I can tell you the bulk of his "Stamp Pad Library" was colloected with a SLR camera on film. He was polite enough to ask owner's permission to take those photos and as NTL I was often beside the owners when he did his thing.

The new gizzmos make it easier, but the base of the research predates the new technology. But the research has continued using the new technology. The new flat digital cameras finally allow us to get good images of the C3 Trim Tags. Psst Buddy, want to see my collection of Certification Label pictures?

Terry,
Scopes have found their way into trim tag and engine stamping verification. In the case of the trim tag it has to be the one the car was born with to continue flight judging. Scopes used on the engine pad is another matter. Correct or not judging continues. There is no yes or no. Subjectivity is still there. Yes there are some that are easy to disclose as restamps. There is no stopping of judging just because the pad is not original as there is with the trim tag. So how is it so that digital equipment is educational to owner and judge. Are we next going to attach digital photos to the judging sheets?
My original point is (in my opinion) NCRS is going to scare owners away by word getting out that judging now incorporates digital imaging in flight judging. As a judging chairman I have to verify all trim tags prior to judging per our requirements. So that part is totally separate from the judges at flight judging. If issues are found with trim tag it is presented to the owner quietly aside from all activities. National judging chairman handles it from there.

[Larry E.]

Re: Broach Busters Inspection Scope - your thoughts?

In the trade magazine I get I understand that the University of Illinois has a couple of used "Electron Microscopes" for sale. Will the
NCRS be bidding on them?? Ok; just a joke--For Now! Larry

[Terry M.]

Re: Broach Busters Inspection Scope - your thoughts?

Terry,
Scopes have found their way into trim tag and engine stamping verification. In the case of the trim tag it has to be the one the car was born with to continue flight judging. Scopes used on the engine pad is another matter. Correct or not judging continues. There is no yes or no. Subjectivity is still there. Yes there are some that are easy to disclose as restamps. There is no stopping of judging just because the pad is not original as there is with the trim tag. So how is it so that digital equipment is educational to owner and judge. Are we next going to attach digital photos to the judging sheets?
My original point is (in my opinion) NCRS is going to scare owners away by word getting out that judging now incorporates digital imaging in flight judging. As a judging chairman I have to verify all trim tags prior to judging per our requirements. So that part is totally separate from the judges at flight judging. If issues are found with trim tag it is presented to the owner quietly aside from all activities. National judging chairman handles it from there.

And when I wrote my first comment (yesterday at nearly 10AM) I was thinking of engine pads and not trim tags. I should have made that clear, but since TT are now Team Leaders responsibility the TT was not on my mind. I know many Chapters do not have enough judges to have appointed Team Leaders at their meets, so I suppose as Judging Chair you are acting as the TL.
If the TT is found lacking the matter is usually handled quietly, as you stated, but would it not be easier to quietly show the owner an enlarged image of exactly what the tag is while explaining it? Doing that with the TT book in hand would be even better, IMO. I would think so, but maybe that is just me. It seems too draconian (precisely what some have voiced objections to on this Board) to simply say - "We have determined that is not a TT originally installed on that car or not a GM manufactured TT (or VIN tag). We have to brand your car." I have been a close witness to only one such incident, and while the Judging Chair (it was a Chapter meet with appointed TLs, but the Judging Chair chose to do the deed himself) was telling the owner about his bad TT, VIN tag and stamp pad (yes it was three strikes) people were crowding around the car attempting to photograph the errant items. In this case the bad news was no news to the owner, but I couldn't help but think had it been someone less sophisticated explaining some details in the proper way might have softened the blow. These sorts of incidents require the utmost of diplomacy and superior people skills from volunteers who may never have encountered this situation before.
Remember too that if the branding occurs at a Chapter meet that does not have the appropriate NTL present, the Owner does have the appeal by way of bringing his branded car to a Regional for review by the appropriate NTL. And in that case I would think digital photos taken at the Chapter event would be interesting to compare to what appears at Regional. I guess that is the cynic coming out in me, but if I were that Chapter Judging Chair I would feel a whole lot better having those images, and subsequently sharing them with the appropriate NTL would be educational for both individuals. Then comparing those images to the car at a subsequent Regional has the potential for even more education.
And speaking of digital images of stamp pads: I think we have all lost count of the number of times digital images have been posted on this board for mass scrutiny and comment. I believe the original posters think that is a benefit to them even before they hear the thumbs up or down from the coliseum audience.

While neither of us is particularly fond of the new technology devices (but for different reasons, I believe) I think it is like the coming freight train and it would be wise for both of us to get off the tracks.

[Terry M.]

Re: Broach Busters Inspection Scope - your thoughts?

In the trade magazine I get I understand that the University of Illinois has a couple of used "Electron Microscopes" for sale. Will the
NCRS be bidding on them?? Ok; just a joke--For Now! Larry

They may be in close proximity to another large Corvette event now held in Champagne, Illinois where the U of I is headquartered. There could be a bidding war. However since for both events for the most part judges provide their own tools, and judges are notoriously reluctant to part with funds (unless for beverages) I suspect your whole idea is a non-starter.

I do know one NCRS & NCCB judge who is an expert in electron microscopy (say that fast three times and you are one) and could probably operate the tool for us. I think I could handle the power to it.

[Marc S.]

Re: Broach Busters Inspection Scope - your thoughts?

The broach buster is a great tool. I have one and highly recommend it!

It simplified lots of things. It got hard carrying around the prototype!