68 missing trim tag

[Dan L.]

I am in the process of restoring a 68 convertible. Unfortunately the trim tag is missing from the driver side door pillar. I can confirm the original exterior color and interior trim based on over spray etc evidence noted during the restoration. Is there anyway of getting a new tag that would be acceptable for NCRS judging?

Thanks

Dan Leslie

[Keith B.]

Re: 68 missing trim tag

If judging is your goal find anther car to restore or be prepared to take the deduction of points

[Michael W.]

Re: 68 missing trim tag

Is there anyway of getting a new tag that would be acceptable for NCRS judging?

No, sorry.

[Patrick H.]

Re: 68 missing trim tag

I do believe there was a car a few years back that was judged without a Trim Tag. Before restoration it was examined and verified, and restored to its original colors. The key is, it was verified before restoration and could only be presented if no repro Trim Tag was attached.
If you truly intend an NCRS type of restoration and judging I would contact Dave Brigham. Roy Sinor is the one who OK'ed the car for judging (IIRC) when he was Nat'l Judging Chairman.

If any of the details are incorrect I'm sure someone will join in.

[Page C.]

Re: 68 missing trim tag

Agree with Patrick that it has been done before. The car I remember was a 1965 that was missing a trim tag. I believe it was brought to a Regional BEFORE it was restored and all of the midyear team leaders and Roy Sinor looked at it and agreed that the car's color and options were unchanged. It was judged without a trim tag but with the documentation from all of the midyear team leaders that it was unchanged from the way it left St. Louis. Again this was BEFORE it was restored.

[Patrick H.]

Re: 68 missing trim tag

Agree with Patrick that it has been done before. The car I remember was a 1965 that was missing a trim tag. I believe it was brought to a Regional BEFORE it was restored and all of the midyear team leaders and Roy Sinor looked at it and agreed that the car's color and options were unchanged. It was judged without a trim tag but with the documentation from all of the midyear team leaders that it was unchanged from the way it left St. Louis. Again this was BEFORE it was restored.

I believe it was at the first Judge's Retreat in Dallas as well.

[Kenneth B.]

Re: 68 missing trim tag

Agree with Patrick that it has been done before. The car I remember was a 1965 that was missing a trim tag. I believe it was brought to a Regional BEFORE it was restored and all of the midyear team leaders and Roy Sinor looked at it and agreed that the car's color and options were unchanged. It was judged without a trim tag but with the documentation from all of the midyear team leaders that it was unchanged from the way it left St. Louis. Again this was BEFORE it was restored.

So are you saying that a Corvette can't be judged without a trim tag unless the powers that be OK it. I was under the impression that it could be. Many theft recoveries & others had trim tags & SN's removed.

[Reba W.]

Re: 68 missing trim tag

Before judging begins, the team leader must examine the Trim Tag (1963-early 1984) or Service Parts Identification Label (most 1984-1996) and sign off on the car summary sheet. That verification block is followed by this statement: All 1963-1996 vehicles without the above Team Leader Authentication Signature here and on the Scoring Summary Sheet must be disqualified from judging and will be “Branded Counterfeit” in our judging records.

This has been in effect for several years. (Since at least 2010)

[John H.]

Re: 68 missing trim tag

So are you saying that a Corvette can't be judged without a trim tag unless the powers that be OK it. I was under the impression that it could be. Many theft recoveries & others had trim tags & SN's removed.

Ken -

The rules allow for documented state-issued VIN tags as a replacement for original GM VIN tags, but there is no provision for replacing original GM trim tags.

[Kenneth B.]

Re: 68 missing trim tag

Ken -The rules allow for documented state-issued VIN tags as a replacement for original GM VIN tags, but there is no provision for replacing original GM trim tags.

JOHN I understood about the VIN & repo trim tags but thought but thought it could be judged without a trim tag in the old days at least. It seems NCRS is excluding a lot of Corvettes if this is the case. Why is a no trim tag Corvette branded a counterfeit?

[Roy S.]

Re: 68 missing trim tag

Ken,

Burden of proof as always is with the owner, several 1963 and up cars have been judged without trim tags all met a burden of proof confirming what they were before they were restored. The 65 mentioned previously in this thread was a theft recovery it was presented in unrestored condition and signed off by all the appropriate individuals, others without trim tags have also been judged each case is different but most were presented with original GM documentation confirming the build. Absent that type of burden of proof, you are out of luck, in the present system.

[Larry E.]

Re: 68 missing trim tag

Ken,

Burden of proof as always is with the owner, several 1963 and up cars have been judged without trim tags all met a burden of proof confirming what they were before they were restored. The 65 mentioned previously in this thread was a theft recovery it was presented in unrestored condition and signed off by all the appropriate individuals, others without trim tags have also been judged each case is different but most were presented with original GM documentation confirming the build. Absent that type of burden of proof, you are out of luck, in the present system.

Roy: That being said is there anyway a car can go through "a prejudging phase"? What I mean by that is to get an official opinion from the judges on the field
before the process starts and then being classified a "counterfeit"? If the judges don't like the tag the car can leave the field and nothing is proclaimed one way or the other. Larry

[Roy S.]

Re: 68 missing trim tag

Larry, in answer to your question post 12.

I'll leave that to our Judging chairman David Brigham to answer. Privately I think it is a mater of once you know you know, what are the legal ramifications if he NCRS records were ever subpoenaed in legal case where there was issue over the legitimacy of something on the car. If NCRS knows and does not record it in some manner what are the potential issues there.

If you have a tag you are concerned about there are many ways to get informed opinion without going to the NCRS judging floor, they are just that an opinion and not a guarantee.

[Larry E.]

Re: 68 missing trim tag

Larry, in answer to your question post 12.

I'll leave that to our Judging chairman David Brigham to answer. Privately I think it is a mater of once you know you know, what are the legal ramifications if he NCRS records were ever subpoenaed in legal case where there was issue over the legitimacy of something on the car. If NCRS knows and does not record it in some manner what are the potential issues there.

If you have a tag you are concerned about there are many ways to get informed opinion without going to the NCRS judging floor, they are just that an opinion and not a guarantee.

Thanks Roy; you are the best. But here is my thoughts:

The way it is set up now there is a lot of great cars not being judged. I for one will never have my 66 L72 judged again. It made Top Flight several years ago. I am by no means a Vin/Trim tag expert. I know we can send images of them to Al Grenning and others over the computer and they will say "Yea or Nay". But as you know an image over the computer is no match for seeing Vin/TT live in person. Even if A/G gives the OK there no guarantee the judge on the field will go along with it. That's the way it should be as the judge in the field that day with the condition given should have the final say. To make a long story short: to get a C2 judged today is just too "RISKY". I will never take that risk. Comments Please. Larry

[Roy S.]

Re: 68 missing trim tag

Thanks Roy; you are the best. But here is my thoughts:

The way it is set up now there is a lot of great cars not being judged. I for one will never have my 66 L72 judged again. It made Top Flight several years ago. I am by no means a Vin/Trim tag expert. I know we can send images of them to Al Grenning and others over the computer and they will say "Yea or Nay". But as you know an image over the computer is no match for seeing Vin/TT live in person. Even if A/G gives the OK there no guarantee the judge on the field will go along with it. That's the way it should be as the judge in the field that day with the condition given should have the final say. To make a long story short: to get a C2 judged today is just too "RISKY". I will never take that risk. Comments Please. Larry