Looking for an opinion on brakes

[Dan D.]

Would there be any good reason to install anything other than standard AC Delco brake pads on my 1972, 350 convertible. I average 1200 to 1500 easy miles a year. I changed to stainless sleeved calipers years ago.

[Michael W.]

Re: Looking for an opinion on brakes

In a word, no. GM got it right.

[Duke W.]

Re: Looking for an opinion on brakes

The C2/3 disk brake system has more than enough capacity for anything you could ever demand from it on the road. They are even okay for light racing with OE or OE equivalent non-metallic pads.

There's no reason to buy Delco pads because they are not made by GM, and the friction material is different than original due to the outlawing of asbestos, but over the years the friction material manufactures, of which there are less than a handful in the entire world, have come up with non-asbestos compounds whose characteristics are virtually identical to OE and some emphasize this in their marketing communications.

The friction material should have data stamped on the side including two letters, like FF. These letters indicate the range of friction coefficient at low and high temperature, and you want the material to be FF or better. The higher the letter, the higher the friction coefficient. FF is more than adequate if you have power brakes. If manual, try to find a GG pad. GM's design specification for the base (manual) system is 100 pounds of pedal effort for a 1 g stop, which is very high by todays's standards, which is probably in the range of 20-30 pounds.

All brake pad geometric designs are assigned a code by the Friction Materials Standards Institute (FMSI), and the Corvette pads are D8 (disk brake, eighth design) Usually "D8" will appear in the part number field. Last time I checked the D-series pads were up to several hundred, so the Corvette disk brake system is one of the earliest, but is still an excellent system if properly maintained.

My only criticism is that the system is heavier than necessary. A one g stop yields about 65/35 percent weight distribution, which is how they are hydraulically biased. So the fronts need about double the heat dissipation capacity of the rears. GM could have saved weight by using a thinner vented rotor and smaller two piston caliper on the rear, but for cost reasons, they decided to used the same rotor and caliper castings on both ends. The rear calipers just have smaller pistons to acheive the 65/35 hydraulic ratio.

So you should shop around and do a little research on what's available. I personally like Repco Deluxe and Deluxe Plus. They have a light colored friction material with copper filiments for heat transfer. They wear very well, are easy on the rotors, and what little dust they produce is light colored and barely visible.

BTW, Repco designed and built the C4 brake system.

Duke

[Dick W.]

Re: Looking for an opinion on brakes

Any quality aftermarket pad would be adequate, whether it be AC Delco (which are made by another company with the AC label on them) Raybestos, Wagner, Bendix are a few names that that come to mind. Good chance that one of them make the AC Delco pads.

[Joe L.]

Re: Looking for an opinion on brakes

Would there be any good reason to install anything other than standard AC Delco brake pads on my 1972, 350 convertible. I average 1200 to 1500 easy miles a year. I changed to stainless sleeved calipers years ago.

Dan------


There are a large number of pads available for 65-82 Corvettes on the market. In fact, each of the many brands offer several different pads. AC Delco does not actually manufacture pads (or most anything else, for that matter) and offers at least two different pads for 1965-82 Corvettes. However, what we don't know is if whoever does manufacture them manufactures them the same as they do for their own or other brands. In any event, if I were buying a set of pads today for a 1965-82 Corvette, I would use AC Delco 17D8, aka GM #18028641. This pad is the "direct descendent" of the original pads installed in PRODUCTION and the pad which GM considers OEM-equivalent. Is it the same as the pad that could be purchased more inexpensively under a different brand? I don't know and I don't know of any way to find out FOR SURE. Since I don't know, I'd go with 17D8.

[Dan D.]

Re: Looking for an opinion on brakes

My thanks to all.Dan

[Jim T.]

Re: Looking for an opinion on brakes

Dan I have used Bendix by Honeywell brake pads. The last box I bought had Made In USA and O.E. Formulated Brake Pads. MFG# D8. Wonder if Bendix makes these for GM?

[Steven B.]

Re: Looking for an opinion on brakes

Dan, I used to work in brake/clutch industry. At my location we made pads and linings under many brands and house brand. As fed. regulations got tighter, an actual blessing if you were ever in an asbestos plant with fiber blowing in the air, more US plants closed and went off shore. The friction rating is maintained no matter the manufacturer, example: FF is always the same performance range no matter the who makes them. BUT, quality MAY be different based upon friction materials, processes, and equipment. Just buy the "D8's" from a reputable source. NAPA or GM are sources that come to mind for everyday driving. Steve

[Timothy B.]

Re: Looking for an opinion on brakes

Steve,

What's the typical friction rating on a D8 pad for street driving. I have some in a box marked rear with a FE rating I was going to use. Are these to hard at high temperature or does street driving even get that hot where the E rating would matter for the rear axle.

[Steven B.]

Re: Looking for an opinion on brakes

Steve,

What's the typical friction rating on a D8 pad for street driving. I have some in a box marked rear with a FE rating I was going to use. Are these to hard at high temperature or does street driving even get that hot where the E rating would matter for the rear axle.

FE is probably the most utilized for street with FF following. GM/Delco and others ordered FE the most. You should not have too many issues with FE provided they are at all four corners. I run those on one of my Corvettes, mostly road versus stop and go driving, but if I was going to do any spirited driving I would probably go with FF. I suggest the newer compounds verses the old albestos. Street driving does not get that hot, even city stop and go. When lab and street testing we seldom had a heat or fade problem and when we did it was form constant riding the pedal. Organic compounds today are pretty good. Steve

[Steven B.]

Re: Looking for an opinion on brakes

This might be of interest:

DOT Pad Codes

This two letter edge code mandated by the DOT, and painted on all street legal brake pads, will give you some indication of their ability to resist fade. But only if you know how to read them. However, because of the wide range involved in each letter, it is only a rough indication.

Explanation of D.O.T. Edge Codes Located on all Brake Pads
Official D.O.T. Edge Code	Coefficient of Friction (C.F.) @ 250 F and @ 600 F	Comments
EE	0.25 to 0.35 both temps	0-25% fade at 600 F possible
FE	0.25 to 0.35 @ 250 F 0.35 to 0.45 @ 600 F	2% to 44% fade at 600 F possible
FF	0.35 to 0.45 both temps	0-22% fade at 600 F possible
GG	0.45 to 0.55	Very Rare
HH	0.55 to 0.65	Carbon/Carbon only. O.K. up to 3000 F where it glows

Notes: These edge codes are located on the edge of the friction material of every brake pad by government regulation, along with some other codes. The first letter is a grading of the C.F. at 250 F and the second letter is a grading of the material at 600 F. Each letter grade can actually have quite a range of C.F. But a difference in the letter grade from medium to hot temperature could be an indicator of fade. The letters can be in any order. Therefore FE pads fade when hot, and EF pads would not grab when cold.. Also, you should know that Steel on Steel has a C.F. of 0.25!! So EE pads have only marginally more torque than no pads at all! Therefore FF pads are usually considered the minimum for a high-performance pad.


I do have a couple I autocross/track and on those I use FF and GG. As noted your FE at all corners are good. Do they have copper or steel in them? Steve

[Timothy B.]

Re: Looking for an opinion on brakes

Steve,

Thanks for the useful information, I will have to check to see if they look like copper of steel and post.

[Peter T.]

Re: Looking for an opinion on brakes

Duke,
In looking for brake pads after reading your post I found EBC Ultimax 2 Pads which they say are GG. There info says they are totally non metallic and made of aramid fiber. Do you have an opinion/experience with these?

Thanks,Pete

[Duke W.]

Re: Looking for an opinion on brakes

No, I don't. They might be good for non-power disk brakes as they may reduce pedal effort. For power brake cars used in normal road driving an inexpensive set of FE or FF D8 pads are fine.

I recently installed a set of Repro Deluxe Plus pads on my '88 Mercedes 190E 2.6 that are rated FG, and I believe are classified "ceramic". They replaced a set of old ceramic FF Deluxe pads and I'm very happy with them. Virtually no dust, low wear, easy on the rotors, and lower pedal effort.

Check around to find out how hard those EBC GG pads are on the rotors. I'd rather have a soft high wear pad that's easy on the rotors than a very hard pad that wears the rotors fast.

Duke