1963 corvette aluminum knock off wheels

[Kenneth M.]

Hi,

I had a 1963 Corvette split window frame off restoration by a Corvette restorer, done by the available information from GM, everything replaced new. I took it to a regional NCRS flight judging, I was 1 /12 points short of first flight because I had aluminum knock-off wheels with the correct Firestone silverstone 1 inch white wall tires.

I understand the NCRS commitment to originality, however, all of my research shows that the kelsey-hayes aluminum knockoff wheels were available when ordering a 1963 corvette, all of the GM advertisement pictures shows the knock off wheels (because they looked a perfect match for the new C2 design, not like the ugly hub caps), I question, NCRS's prove that ANY Kelsey-Hayes Aluminum wheels were not put on any 1963 corvette, I know that there were some that were and delivered, as a production 1963 corvette.

[Harry S.]

Re: 1963 corvette aluminum knock off wheels

Ken if you could prove via written documentation that 1963,s were delivered with knock-off wheels you would make lots of people happy. Else as far as we know (NCRS) not one was delivered either due to a lawsuit with Jaguar or they leaked air.

[Michael G.]

Re: 1963 corvette aluminum knock off wheels

Ken, the points you lost are gone and it's too late to worry about them. If you don't mind some practical advice, consider that, if you just barely missed top flight, you had to have lost a lot of points on things besides those wheels. In my humble opinion, ALL of those other points will be easier to recover in your next judging than trying to fight for the aluminum wheel points. Let it go, it's not a battle that can be won.

If you fix the the other stuff and keep your wheels, you can make top flight without those few wheel points. Otherwise, get some steel wheels for judging and put the aluminum ones back on after you get your award. That's what most do.

[Duke W.]

Re: 1963 corvette aluminum knock off wheels

Hi,

I know that there were some that were and delivered, as a production 1963 corvette.

NCRS obtained GM option production quantity data, which are summarized in the Specification Guides, and according to GM no KO wheels were installed on '63 production cars intended for sale to the public. (There were some early "gear drive" design with two-bar nuts installed on some of the 25 pilot line models, but they were not intended for sale to the public, though some eventually were.) The "pin-drive" second design were not installed until the '64 model year.

From my own experience ordering a SWC in February '63, I was told the KOs were not released for production and my order would be delayed, so I dropped them.

Corvette guys have been arguing this issue for 50 years, but NOBODY has ever been able to present unequivocal proof, like a dealer copy of the production order, that RPO P-48 was installed at St. Louis.

Tell us how you "know" that KOs were delivered from St. Louis on production '63s.

Duke

[John H.]

Re: 1963 corvette aluminum knock off wheels

Hi,

I had a 1963 Corvette split window frame off restoration by a Corvette restorer, done by the available information from GM, everything replaced new. I took it to a regional NCRS flight judging, I was 1 /12 points short of first flight because I had aluminum knock-off wheels with the correct Firestone silverstone 1 inch white wall tires.

I understand the NCRS commitment to originality, however, all of my research shows that the kelsey-hayes aluminum knockoff wheels were available when ordering a 1963 corvette, all of the GM advertisement pictures shows the knock off wheels (because they looked a perfect match for the new C2 design, not like the ugly hub caps), I question, NCRS's prove that ANY Kelsey-Hayes Aluminum wheels were not put on any 1963 corvette, I know that there were some that were and delivered, as a production 1963 corvette.

Ken -

When you restore a car for judging, you do it by the rules if you want maximum points; your restorer should have read the wheel section in the '63-'64 Judging Guide, which states very clearly, "There is no known documentation of any original 1963 factory equipped model with optional cast aluminum wheels. Judging Guidance: Assign a full deduction for wheels and wheel covers on any 1963 car so equipped."

[Steven B.]

Re: 1963 corvette aluminum knock off wheels

Ken, do you have reproduction or original KO's? What markings are on your wheels (letters, numbers, symbols)? Does the backside have small ribs between the holes? If parts are different than typical factory parts points are usually deducted as are points deducted for parts not factory installed in place of model year factory parts. Steve

[James G.]

Re: 1963 corvette aluminum knock off wheels

NCRS obtained GM option production quantity data, which are summarized in the Specification Guides, and according to GM no KO wheels were installed on '63 production cars intended for sale to the public. (There were some early "gear drive" design with two-bar nuts installed on some of the 25 pilot line models, but they were not intended for sale to the public, though some eventually were.) The "pin-drive" second design were not installed until the '64 model year.

From my own experience ordering a SWC in February '63, I was told the KOs were not released for production and my order would be delayed, so I dropped them.

Corvette guys have been arguing this issue for 50 years, but NOBODY has ever been able to present unequivocal proof, like a dealer copy of the production order, that RPO P-48 was installed at St. Louis.

Tell us how you "know" that KOs were delivered from St. Louis on production '63s.

Duke

VIN #8915, a 63 Z0-6 Tanker '' SURVIVOR'' one owner car inspected last January had its original JANUARY 1964 DATED wheels on the car, all 5. The original RON TONKIN PAPERWORK shows on a separate JANUARY 1964 work order, ''INSTALL KNOCK OFF WHEELS NO CHARGE PER ORIGINAL ORDER NOT DELIVERED WITH CAR WHEN NEW''

[Michael J.]

Re: 1963 corvette aluminum knock off wheels

VIN #8915, a 63 Z0-6 Tanker '' SURVIVOR'' one owner car inspected last January had its original JANUARY 1964 DATED wheels on the car, all 5. The original RON TONKIN PAPERWORK shows on a separate JANUARY 1964 work order, ''INSTALL KNOCK OFF WHEELS NO CHARGE PER ORIGINAL ORDER NOT DELIVERED WITH CAR WHEN NEW''

Interesting, but would that count as St. Louis production original (and thus no deduct) since they were dealer installed long after it left the factory and the dealer at sale?

[Mike M.]

Re: 1963 corvette aluminum knock off wheels

i recently sold my 63 ZO6 tanker, probably the last such animal built ( 4h week july 63). the original owner, still alive and of sound mind, states he ordered it from his first wife's uncle(he's since had several more wives) . anyway, he ordered and paid for K/O'S on the corvette. when he took delivery, right off the transporter, the vet wore steel wheels with hubcaps.the steel wheels, per my inspection, were appropriately date coded for a late july built 63. the owner related to me that by late 63, the dealer got 5 new K/O's from chevy and installed them on the tanker. the original owner sold the car in 66 0r 67 with all 10 wheels. the second owner kept the K/O's when he sold it to owner #3, who i bought the car from. i got a call from tom christman who knew the car in its early years(tom worked for ZIP at the time and the 1st and 2nd owners all lived in virginia near ZIP). anyway, tom called me shortly after i bought the car and offered the K/O's to me.i declined because i knew NO 63's were sold with K/O's. i believe tom told me mike yeager bought the K/O's. mike

[Duke W.]

Re: 1963 corvette aluminum knock off wheels

Interesting, but would that count as St. Louis production original (and thus no deduct) since they were dealer installed long after it left the factory and the dealer at sale?

No. That VIN would be mid-January production. If it was the first release Z-06, KOs were included with the package, but clearly not delivered from St. Louis.

The question then is: Did GM credit first release Z-06 customers for the lack of KOs or did they provide them later when they were released for production and service parts?

Clearly if January '64 manufactured KOs were installed by the dealer in January '64 they were not installed at St. Louis, but it looks like the customer received them, installed, at no charge, so his first release Z-06 was finally completed a year after initial delivery, and for the inconvenience he got a set of steel wheels and wheel covers at no charge.

Duke

[Philip C.]

Re: 1963 corvette aluminum knock off wheels

I have GM's 1963 production figures and it shows 12 cars with P-48, that along with a host of other real docs, photos and eye witness account that prove it. If anyone picks up the new Corvette Black Book by Mike Antonick 1953-2014 on page 37 its shows 12 cars with P-48. I gave Mike my info and HE verified it with his records. IF anyone has any GM or Kelsey Hayes Docs that say anything different, I would love to see it. I am only interested in FACTS, written FACTS not what a dealer told a buyer or all the other HE SAID SHE SAID BS, IT appears to be, IT maybe, I thought it was, I think is was, Everybody knows, If I remember correctly, Somebody told me, My aunt Tilly order them but couldn't get them. "Even the Corvairs didn't come from the factory in 63 with two bar wire wheels". There is not ONE printed word from GM that states the wheels were not available, my time line shows the wheels were released from production on certain dates then withheld, SOOO if the wheels were ordered at that time that release window opened the car got them. No one yet has backed up their claim, especially here that no 1963 corvette came from the factory with knock off wheels. I am sure a bunch of You saw the 63 corvette camera car with the two bar knock off wheels filming the Brand new 63 chevy and Brand new 63 ford drag racing in that commercial. What the theory are that one?? I am layin odds no one steps up on the above! Phil Castaldo 8063

[Duke W.]

Re: 1963 corvette aluminum knock off wheels

You can't prove a negative. Sure, GM published lots of publicity photos and films of '63 Corvettes with KO wheels, but that doesn't prove they were released for production or installed on the St. Louis production line. Dick Thompson had a set on his '63 Z-06 at the '63 Road America June Sprints, but were they installed at St. Louis?

P-48 was listed in the order guides, but documentation has never been revealed that indicates P-48 was actually ever released for production, nor has anyone ever seen a production order for a car intended for retail sale that shows P-48 on the options list.

If you have documenation to the contrary, write an article for The Corvette Restorer that includes scans of the documentation and your analysis. The ball's in your court on this issue.

Duke

[Philip C.]

Re: 1963 corvette aluminum knock off wheels

You can't prove a negative. Sure, GM published lots of publicity photos and films of '63 Corvettes with KO wheels, but that doesn't prove they were released for production or installed on the St. Louis production line. Dick Thompson had a set on his '63 Z-06 at the '63 Road America June Sprints, but were they installed at St. Louis?P-48 was listed in the order guides, but documentation has never been revealed that indicates P-48 was actually ever released for production, nor has anyone ever seen a production order for a car intended for retail sale that shows P-48 on the options list.If you have documenation to the contrary, write an article for The Corvette Restorer that includes scans of the documentation and your analysis. The ball's in your court on this issue.Duke

If you read my findings that there was a few very small windows when the wheel were released. I have several shippers copies from Z-06 cars with P-48 from car 684 thru 17k range, all these copies except one have the wheels underlined showing the "not equal to" symbol. Those cars did not have the wheels installed. If no cars were to get the wheels why would they go thru the trouble from start of production thru almost the end of production having them listed on all those build / shipper copies. Al Grenning says 59 copies of build papers per car. I have the engineering releases that show the wheels were released for production. I have GMs 63 corvette option list the shows 12 cars. I have the Friday night news letters to the dealers about the testing and releasing dates for the wheels. I have the GM Dec.17 1962 option change removing the 36 1/2 gal gas tank and the wheels from the Z06 option and making them now two separate orderable options. (P-48 N-03) Corvette News sent by GM to Corvette owners have articles on P-48, tell and show that the wheels were available. I have Zora's FIA papers showing the wheels and two bar spinners, he certified for the cars to the FIA. Duke I would be glad to show you the Documentation that you think was never seen. e-mail me Phil 8063