Flight Judging points deduction for missing A.I.R equipment on '67 BB.

[Jim S.]

If all A.I.R. equipment is missing except the correct exhaust manifolds are there, (plugs in manifold fittings) what would be the points lost? I read it as a total of 20 points. However, the manifold might get a 20% configuration deduct (2 points) for the plugs. Am I missing anything else?
I want to advise the owner of the potential 'cost per point' to replace the A.I.R. Thanks

[Edward J.]

Re: Flight Judging points deduction for missing A.I.R equipment on '67 BB.

Jim, You can download the 67 mechanical judging sheets from member services above, and just subtract the all originality and condition points for anything related to AIR system.

[Jim S.]

Re: Flight Judging points deduction for missing A.I.R equipment on '67 BB.

Jim, You can download the 67 mechanical judging sheets and just subtract the all originality and condition points for anything related to AIR system.

Already have, that's where I got the 20 points. Just wanted to confirm I did not miss something else that might relate to missing A.I.R. equipment. Thanks

[Edward J.]

Re: Flight Judging points deduction for missing A.I.R equipment on '67 BB.

Yes You are correct on the manifolds w/plugs 20%., Does the 20 points you found inc. the condition points also?

[Jim S.]

Re: Flight Judging points deduction for missing A.I.R equipment on '67 BB.

Yes You are correct on the manifolds w/plugs 20%., Does the 20 points you found inc. the condition points also?

Yes, 10 and 10. Based on a total of 22 points lost, it sounds like as much as $225. per point.

[Daniel Y.]

Re: Flight Judging points deduction for missing A.I.R equipment on '67 BB.

there may be more than that depending on what engine. there are clips that attached to intake manifild for hose, spacer for the thermostat housing, upper radiator hose etc.... you would need to go through the entire engine section to see what you have or dont have

[Jim S.]

Re: Flight Judging points deduction for missing A.I.R equipment on '67 BB.

there may be more than that depending on what engine. there are clips that attached to intake manifild for hose, spacer for the thermostat housing, upper radiator hose etc.... you would need to go through the entire engine section to see what you have or dont have

That's why I'm asking the question I have not found any other deductions for missing A.I.R. in the engine section or anywhere else. Thanks

[Mike E.]

Re: Flight Judging points deduction for missing A.I.R equipment on '67 BB.

I'm not a mid-year judge, and 61-62 didn't have AIR. The 67 team leader would be the right person to ask. However,
I foresee much more than 20 points. Because the stamped suffix on your block would indicate AIR, that brings in all sorts of other issues. If you don't have the correct carb, air cleaner, etc., you would lose points on each of those, as well as brackets, etc. the AIR equipment is not cheap, but I don't see the car doing well in judging without it.

[Floyd B.]

Re: Flight Judging points deduction for missing A.I.R equipment on '67 BB.

Jim,

I think the only way to know for sure is to follow Dan's advice. It will really be different for every car and you won't know for sure until you go through the entire Mechanical section. For example, on a '69 if the lower A.I.R. pump bracket is missing there will be nowhere for the external fuel filter bracket to attach. Could someone place the fuel filter bracket around the fuel filter just to get those points? sure but now you have to deal with the missing bolt.

-Floyd-

[Jim S.]

Re: Flight Judging points deduction for missing A.I.R equipment on '67 BB.

I'm not a mid-year judge, and 61-62 didn't have AIR. The 67 team leader would be the right person to ask. However,
I foresee much more than 20 points. Because the stamped suffix on your block would indicate AIR, that brings in all sorts of other issues. If you don't have the correct carb, air cleaner, etc., you would lose points on each of those, as well as brackets, etc. the AIR equipment is not cheap, but I don't see the car doing well in judging without it.

Ok, this is what I need to know. What other issues? This is a 400 HP 427, so what items are different on an A.I.R. engine? Carbs? Air cleaner? What else? Thank you for the input. Need some 67 A.I.R gurus to reply.

[Terry M.]

Re: Flight Judging points deduction for missing A.I.R equipment on '67 BB.

Ok, this is what I need to know. What other issues? This is a 400 HP 427, so what items are different on an A.I.R. engine? Carbs? Air cleaner? What else? Thank you for the input. Need some 67 A.I.R gurus to reply.

I don't do midyears, but when I see 1967 AIR systems (aside from running the other way) I see a valve attached to a bracket on the driver's side rocker cover. That makes me think there could be a configuration issue with that rocker cover. When you speak of AIR system are you including the hoses, that valve I mentioned and the trees that go to the exhaust manifold. Someone has already mentioned the carburetor and air filter assembly as being different for AIR. I don't know what the midyear practice as to whether those trees, hoses, clamps and valve are accounted for as part of the AIR system or if each is assessed as part of the rocker covers. That question certainly needs either an experienced judge or the National Team Leader. I think you are best off communicating with Nick - especially now that Valentines Day has passed.

[Mike E.]

Re: Flight Judging points deduction for missing A.I.R equipment on '67 BB.

Ok, this is what I need to know. What other issues? This is a 400 HP 427, so what items are different on an A.I.R. engine? Carbs? Air cleaner? What else? Thank you for the input. Need some 67 A.I.R gurus to reply.

The new 67 judging guide is quite specific about AIR. But you really need to look carefully at the entire big block mechanical section to ferret out exactly everything that was included in AIR and different than standard. If it was 300 hp, I could help a lot more because I've gone through all the detail on it.

[Mike E.]

Re: Flight Judging points deduction for missing A.I.R equipment on '67 BB.

To add another aspect in your conversation with the owner: a 400hp 67 is a pretty desirable car. The owner likely has both money and ego tied up in it. Does he want to be known within the hobby as the owner of the "oh, that's the A.I.R car without the A.I.R"? The judging process is about getting a car as right as one can get it--that car merits being put back right.

[Jim S.]

Re: Flight Judging points deduction for missing A.I.R equipment on '67 BB.

To add another aspect in your conversation with the owner: a 400hp 67 is a pretty desirable car. The owner likely has both money and ego tied up in it. Does he want to be known within the hobby as the owner of the "oh, that's the A.I.R car without the A.I.R"? The judging process is about getting a car as right as one can get it--that car merits being put back right.

Mike,
I believe the owner understands the importance of a 'proper' restoration. He is doing much of the detail work himself and is open to correcting small details. Before investing what could be $3000. + in A.I.R. parts he would like to understand the point ramifications. I think that's reasonable thinking.
As we know, not all elements are covered in the JG or AIM. We're asking for 'tips' on what to check to understand what is 'different' on a 67 BB A.I.R car.
Thanks, Jim

[Ara G.]

Re: Flight Judging points deduction for missing A.I.R equipment on '67 BB.

Ok, this is what I need to know. What other issues? This is a 400 HP 427, so what items are different on an A.I.R. engine? Carbs? Air cleaner? What else? Thank you for the input. Need some 67 A.I.R gurus to reply.

Jim, Carbs are different, air cleaner base is different, Sun Air Wheels Booklet needed in glove box (obviously interior section), as Dan said the spacer, upper radiator hose, Smog bracket, tension bracket, check valves, mixture control valve, smog tubes, hoses, spacer on pump, Intake manifold is different, passenger side valve cover is different, vacuum line is different, and I think the vacuum advance is different as well.....ARA.