Over-restoring engines

[Rob M.]

Most engines I've seen seem to have way to many orange paint on it (the engines were painted within a minute). Does NCRS deduct for over restoring engines (paint wise)?

Personally I think behind the exhaust manifolds and water pump there should not be any coverage, only overspray and the oil pan should be have light coating or only overspray. Why are we so tough on exterior over-restoration and not on engine paint?

[Edward J.]

Re: Over-restoring engines

Rob, Every meet I have been to it seems everyone has had a deduct for to much orange paint. including myself. along with exhaust manifolds with some sort of treatment always gets a deduct. Keep in mind these are only minor deductions. I believe that when restoring our cars It looks so much better to have to much than to little, Don't forget its only original once anyway.

[Michael J.]

Re: Over-restoring engines

My '67 L71 received deductions at a regional for the valve covers being "too glossy". I had to repaint them to look rough and haphazard, as well as the oil pan. Some judges will do it, just like exterior.

[Stephen L.]

Re: Over-restoring engines

As said earlier, the deduction for "shiny paint" is minor. "Shiny paint" is a lot easier to keep clean over time...... Attached is my "shiny engine" lost maybe 1-2 raw points out of 4500 at a national judging in 2010....

[Michael G.]

Re: Over-restoring engines

As said earlier, the deduction for "shiny paint" is minor. "Shiny paint" is a lot easier to keep clean over time...... Attached is my "shiny engine" lost maybe 1-2 raw points out of 4500 at a national judging in 2010....

Hey......no paint on the exhaust manifolds........ I cringed when I 'spritzed' mine.

[Michael J.]

Re: Over-restoring engines

Yes, it is minor compared to what you will lose on the exterior with a $20K four coat BC/CC paint job…...

I lost 4 points, not much, but still some and every point counts you know.

[John D.]

Re: Over-restoring engines

I asked this question to a well known restorer who said it was what his customers wanted. No one wants to pay $100k or more for a resto and not have a nice shiny engine. I have judged cars with valve covers like mirrors..

[Stephen L.]

Re: Over-restoring engines

Michael Gill, never fear, for there is 1250 deg cast blast on those manifolds. They STILL look like that today. These were painted in 2005, and judged in 2010

[Stephen L.]

Re: Over-restoring engines

John, Nearly every car show I attend are awed by the engine detail... that is except NCRS. As a result, I enjoy the "awesome" comments of the general public and accept the point deductions from NCRS. Same goes for my BC/CC paint.

[Domenic T.]

Re: Over-restoring engines

I get confused here sometimes. As I read some things posted, it seems that RUST is preferred over quality workmanship and paint coverage.
It seems that the Monday morning workers poor work is what is now honered and judged highly!
I wonder what the work discription said and how the forman told his workers how to do their work?
When I started my restoration I thought deductions would be for poor work, rusted parts and poor body fit.
If it's my work, I want the "awesome" comments and the absence of rust, not to mention missed spots (paint).

DOM

[Jerry B.]

Re: Over-restoring engines

Stephen. Could you post the specs and brand of the 1250 degree cast blast. I never had any luck with the stuff I used.

[Rob M.]

Re: Over-restoring engines

I get confused here sometimes. As I read some things posted, it seems that RUST is preferred over quality workmanship and paint coverage.
It seems that the Monday morning workers poor work is what is now honored and judged highly!
I wonder what the work description said and how the forman told his workers how to do their work?
When I started my restoration I thought deductions would be for poor work, rusted parts and poor body fit.
If it's my work, I want the "awesome" comments and the absence of rust, not to mention missed spots (paint).

DOM

There are ways to mimic the original appearance without it rusting in month or two. I paint sprayed my engine first in casting color and then sprayed it with engine where I thought it should receive Chevy orange... That way you can limit the amount of paint in certain areas (oilpan, behind the water pump and exhaust manifolds (for those years they are spayed orange)) but still have the piece of mind that it won't rust in a short period...

IMG_1961.jpgIMG_1960.jpgIMG_1979.jpgIMG_0335.jpg

Casting parts which should remain casting only get the casting spray. Other bair parts can be lightly applied with flat clear coat or transparent textile for rust protection.

[Edward J.]

Re: Over-restoring engines

Rob The only area I see you may have wrong is the rear of the oil pan drain plug and back of oil pan is generally bare. the very bottom of pan does get coated, Don't forget the flywheel and bell housing were in place. so it kind of limited the spray on the rear of the oil pan and drain plug areas.

[Michael H.]

Re: Over-restoring engines

A properly prepared and painted exhaust manifold will not rust for a long time. Instead of paint burning off the manifold, it should burn on.
If you look at a few well maintained low mileage original unrestored cars, you can see that the orange coating has turned to black and burned on instead of flaking off.

One reason restored manifolds loose their paint coating almost immediately is because most restorers sand/glass blass the surface and then apply the paint coating. Unfortunately, the surface is packed full of the blasting media and nothing will stick to it. Years ago, I mentioned, here, that after the blasting process, the manifolds should be washed in lacquer thinner or solvent.

Most restorers finally accept the fact that the manifolds were painted along with the engine but some try to very carefully avoid getting too much paint on them. That's easy to do with a spray can but when it was painted at the engine plant, the painter used a pressure feed paint system that threw out a lot of material with a wide spray pattern. That made it almost impossible to paint an area of the engine anywhere near the manifold without also completely covering the entire outer surface of the manifold.

As John Hinckey reported, the engines were completely painted at Flint engine in something like 13 seconds. That didn't leave much/any time for detail or being careful to try to avoid getting paint on the manifolds. Believe it, the outer surface of the manifold was heavily coated with orange paint.

Some oil pans had a very thin, almost mist coat of paint. Most, though, were covered with so much paint that there were often drips hanging off the the bottom.

All of this really depends on how accurate you want your restoration to be. Most seem to lean toward making things much better than factory quality. I understand that and that's ok but don't whine if the judge deducts points because the car is over restored.

Someone once said... "The Way It Was, Not The Way We Wished It Were"... or something like that.

[Jim R.]

Re: Over-restoring engines

A properly prepared and painted exhaust manifold will not rust for a long time. Instead of paint burning off the manifold, it should burn on. If you look at a few well maintained low mileage original unrestored cars, you can see that the orange coating has turned to black and burned on instead of flaking off. One reason restored manifolds loose their paint coating almost immediately is because most restorers sand/glass blass the surface and then apply the paint coating. Unfortunately, the surface is packed full of the blasting media and nothing will stick to it. Years ago, I mentioned, here, that after the blasting process, the manifolds should be washed in lacquer thinner or solvent. Most restorers finally accept the fact that the manifolds were painted along with the engine but some try to very carefully avoid getting too much paint on them. That's easy to do with a spray can but when it was painted at the engine plant, the painter used a pressure feed paint system that threw out a lot of material with a wide spray pattern. That made it almost impossible to paint an area of the engine anywhere near the manifold without also completely covering the entire outer surface of the manifold. As John Hinckey reported, the engines were completely painted at Flint engine in something like 13 seconds. That didn't leave much/any time for detail or being careful to try to avoid getting paint on the manifolds. Believe it, the outer surface of the manifold was heavily coated with orange paint. Some oil pans had a very thin, almost mist coat of paint. Most, though, were covered with so much paint that there were often drips hanging off the the bottom. All of this really depends on how accurate you want your restoration to be. Most seem to lean toward making things much better than factory quality. I understand that and that's ok but don't whine if the judge deducts points because the car is over restored. Someone once said... "The Way It Was, Not The Way We Wished It Were"... or something like that.

Michael I believe that man was David Burroughs, what ever became of that blue on blue 396 roadster he restored?