I remember reading that the 57 283 Horsepower Corvrvette was one if not the fastest car built in 1957. But what about those 200 or so Supercharged Thunderbirds which supposed made 300 Horsepower. Did any of the mags back in the day test these two warrior's against each other ?
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Re: Fuelie vs Supercharged Thunderbird
MotorTrend did a test between the two '56 models in the June '57 issue. Brief recap here:http://www.vetteweb.com/lifestyle/ve...corvette_test/
Couldn't find anything about '57s though. -
Re: Fuelie vs Supercharged Thunderbird
Great article, as a kid back then and only 8 years old I remember the Ford Chevy reval thing especially since my dad was service manager at the local Chevrolet dealer. I was taken to the drag strip at times and their were two brothers who owned a Corvette who my Dad knew who raced them at the strip. There was always plenty of Thunderbirds and Corvettes going at it but I dont remember much who won most of the time. Back then I think the classes were not to fair either. I remember my older brother who owned a 54 olds was made to run a 56 which had more horsepower then the 54 and he lost the trophy because of it. No Christmas tree just a guy with a flag.Racing back then was pretty crude as I remember it. You did not even need a seat belt or a helmet.Comment
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Re: Fuelie vs Supercharged Thunderbird
I still can not find ANY information on actual performance for the F code Thunderbird except something I read in a book called Thunderbird performance portfolio where one such car is talked about. Its claims horsepower when fine tuned with the V57 Supercharger was up to 325 to 340 and that Ford wanted that info kept secret so they quoted 300. The writer of the article also said concerning the horsepower and I quote 'Enough to beat Chevrolet and perhaps saving more for 1958. Seems the writer did not realize Robert McNamria had other plans for 1958. The writer also claims speed runs of 138 at Daytona but I thought the 57 Fuelie had a higher speed record at daytona run by Zora. Either way the T bird was not light weighing in at about 3300 pounds which would be to the Corvettes avantage.Comment
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Re: Fuelie vs Supercharged Thunderbird
Here is an article on the performance specs:
Big Tanks In the High Mountains of New MexicoComment
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Re: Fuelie vs Supercharged Thunderbird
They must have stacked the deck against the Corvette by configuring it with a PowerGlide and a relatively low horsepower 265 in order to make for a close comparison with the Bird. The acceleration of the test car is on par with a '54 6 banger and slower than a '55 V8 Vette.
Road & Track did a test of a pair of '56 Vettes, both with the 225 HP engine. One had a manual trans and that car could 0-60 is a little over 7 seconds. Even the PowerGlide test car could get it done in 8.9
In '57, R&T tested the '57 FI Vette belonging to Andy Porterfield. 0-60, using only 1st gear, was a spectacular (for the time) 5.7 seconds. About the car's acceleration, R&T wrote, "The data are unequaled by any other production sports car."
JimComment
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Re: Fuelie vs Supercharged Thunderbird
The weight advantage of the Corvette is significant. Also, could a LSD be ordered for the T-bird? Without a LSD I doubt if it would even be a race against a '57 283 HP FI, CR 4-speed with a 4.11 Positraction. At the power to weight ratio of these two front heavy cars, initial traction is a major issue.
IIRC the '57 283 HP FI was quicker than later models because the later C1s were heavier. A quicker Corvette didn't come along until the 327 in '62.
DukeComment
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Re: Fuelie vs Supercharged Thunderbird
Being an old gezzer who, not only witnessed the competition between Vettes and Birds, but participated in races between sedans equipped with Corvette or T-bird engines. I ran a 57 post sedan with a 270 hp (ah hum) Vette engine against 57 flip top Fords with the blown T-Bird engines. 57 Ford sedans were a class higher due to their better power to weight ratio (there were very few of those as they would have to run against big block 348 or 409 Chevies). The advantage that the blown Fords had was a smart owner/driver was able to turn up the boost on the blowers for racing. The flip tops also had better traction due to their weight distrbution (or so it seemed). My engine was a .060" overbore x .030" stroked (offset ground rod journals). I had totally reworked power pack heads and dual Carter WCFB's (exchanged for Caddy Eldorado carbs for top speed in class runs), all set up for max power on a chassis dyno in Chicago.
I beat the flip top Ford about as often as he beat me, and even though we were in B/stock, we often ran for overall stock eliminator beating out higher class A/S, B/SS, A/SS and Ultra/Stock. I do not recall any blown T-Birds parse ever showing up at the track.
Stu FoxComment
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Re: Fuelie vs Supercharged Thunderbird
Yup thats the only way you could get the public interested in a stink'in FORD. Load them up with LSD and give them a pen to sign the papers...
Sorry Duke, I couldn't resist that, I'm sure you are asking about a Limited Slip Differential. No help with the answer to your question.Comment
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Re: Fuelie vs Supercharged Thunderbird
These were interesting cars, but I can now drive neither of them. Too tight in the cockpit for a guy of my size and "flexibility". I have owned one of that vintage, and after a couple of years of pain, decided never again for either marque. I do wonder how small people must have been in those days to drive these things comfortably. I was 7 in '57, so obviously could have not experienced the whole thing with these tiny cars. But I will say that IMO, the '56 and '57 T-bird beat the same year 'Vettes hands down in styling and beauty. In the eye of the beholder obviously, but most likely the sales numbers would verify what the public thought. Performance was NOT what they were buying.
Big Tanks In the High Mountains of New MexicoComment
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Re: Fuelie vs Supercharged Thunderbird
I have numerous 300HP Ford stories, one of my favorites is about one of our own. The ETs given or close. The late Gail Parsons and a partner held a national NHRA junior stock record with a 57 T Bird automatic at about 13.50. They received a lot of information from a Ford racing engineer named Sullivan? There were a lot of tricks with boost, camshafts etc. They came to Tulsa for the NHRA World Finals in 66 or 67 and during time trials bombed the record to 13.13. Gail said that ended their competitiveness with that car.
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Re: Fuelie vs Supercharged Thunderbird
I forgot to mention that both my 57 and the Ford flip top routinely ran low 13's at about 106to 110 mph. That was with street tires and suspension mods for weight transfer. My tires were Goodyear double eagles 2 sizes over on the rear. Back in the day, we tried to get away with anything that no one protested. An outsider (not in our group) twice protested my car and I only had to remove my manifold to display my matched and polished ports. My penalty was loss of race and a 2 week suspension, then it was back to business as usual. No one had the tools to measure .030" stroke, but they did have a ruler to measure bore and I was clean there. Say what you want about the old system of a flag man, but that was what made it all that more fun as you were allowed to false start twice, so you played psych games with your opponent by jumping him and trying to get away with it. Competition was very close, but it was only for trophies. Once cash prizes came in the fun went away as the big factory backed guys came in and ruined the sport. We were there to race "off the street" in a reasonably organized fashion.
Stu FoxComment
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Re: Fuelie vs Supercharged Thunderbird
STU you are so right. I remember when we thought the guys that brought the cars on a open trailer & didn't drive them to the track were big time drag racers. I'm with you that the money & the popularity of drag racing in the early 60'S turned the sport into a factory sponsored/ professional event. At smaller tracks I had to race a Thunderbolt with my 427 galaxy full size Ford.65 350 TI CONV 67 J56 435 CONV,67,390/AIR CONV,70 454/air CONV,
What A MAN WON'T SPEND TO GIVE HIS ASS A RIDEComment
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Re: Fuelie vs Supercharged Thunderbird
We used a tow bar on our'60 Pontiac C Stock attached to my 60 Pontiac tow car. But that's when York U.S.30 Dragaway had a little trailer at the start line. When the blue light on top of the trailer was flashing, all racing stopped to land an airplane.Comment
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Re: Fuelie vs Supercharged Thunderbird
These are some comment by Tom Mudd of Saginaw, Michigan. A real drag racer from the late 50s. Tom has a great collection of old car magazines and a great memory for facts and details. His first comments concern a particular dual quad "57 Chevrolet.
"Don Culver had Jerry Phillion's 1957 Chevy which originally featured the 270 HP dual-quad motor and three speed manual. Don changed to a tri-carb setup with a Millings cam. Phillion had already changed the gearbox to a six-cylinder unit that had a lower first gear to go along with the 4:11 rear gear. The original 270 was good for low 15s and low 90s in the quarter. With Don's changes, the Chevy turned in the high 14s and near 94.
While cruising with Don one night, we were challenged by a Flint-based 1957 supercharged Ford convertible. Race took place on M-46 late in evening with me the flag man. I was almost crushed when both cars fishtailed toward me. Don beat the Ford handily. Don also raced a number of 1957 Corvette fuelies and could beat them all, except for one owned by John Winston. 1957 Corvette fuelies could turn high 14s at about 96. One was tested in Road and Track, and it ran 14.6. Supercharged Fords were listed in a number of car mags of the time in results for various dragstrips, and a good winning time, usually for "A" Stock, was in the low 15s. In short, a 1957 Corvette fuelie would surely win a drag race against a supercharged 1957 Ford if both were stock. Might be different if both were specially prepped for drag racing. Culver's Chevy was one fast car."
JimComment
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