NCRS judging quality today vs. mid/latter 1980's

[John S.]

What is the opinion on a car judged in the mid/later 1980's vs. one judged today?Going to look at a C2 judged in the mid and later 1980's, car received several top flights (98-99 points), regional and chapter meets, Duntov, PV, and Bloomington Gold awards. Car has less than 50 miles since resto and judging, stored inside since. Lacquer paint too.Just wonder what the level of judging was back then vs. the level today. Of course back then cars had far more original parts on them vs. today's repro items, but wondered about detail judging level then vs. now and what one could expect of the difference.Thanks for any input.John

[Michael J.]

Re: NCRS judging quality today vs. mid/latter 1980's

An excellent question. I have a C2 that is almost identical to what you describe, won them all in 1992-93. I look forward to others perspectives on this.

[Terry M.]

Re: NCRS judging quality today vs. mid/latter 1980's

Regardless of whether judging has changed one needs to remember that the car received that award on the day it was judged. You have no assurance that it still has the same parts on it today.

[Mike E.]

Re: NCRS judging quality today vs. mid/latter 1980's

I've been judging since 1978. Overall quality of judges today is better because of training and experience. Getting a car to score as well as it did then would be very difficult, because the TIMJG is far more sophisticated and thorough than it was then. However, we probably under-appreciated the really nice cars then. It's inaccurate to assume that back then cars had many more original parts. Some did, many didn't. A truly quality car, especially an unrestored car, will still score very well.

[John S.]

Re: NCRS judging quality today vs. mid/latter 1980's

What I meant was original NOS parts back in the mid 80's were more readily available, at probably far lower cost too. I know this car when restored then got original NOS GM bumpers installed. Repro interior for sure, not sure of quality then vs. now? Many parts are unobtainable today NOS, or very costly if they can be found.And of course one has to inspect to insure original parts are still on the car.

[Terry M.]

Re: NCRS judging quality today vs. mid/latter 1980's

Very frequently NOS parts differed in some small way from the factory installed part, so IMO restoring with NOS parts is not something to boast about. I am aware not everyone shares that opinion, nor is everyone so picky as to seek out those small differences, however as time has moved on NCRS judges have gotten better at discerning these differences and making deductions for NTFP. C'est la vie.

[Harry S.]

Re: NCRS judging quality today vs. mid/latter 1980's

Very frequently NOS parts differed in some small way from the factory installed part, so IMO restoring with NOS parts is not something to boast about. I am aware not everyone shares that opinion, nor is everyone so picky as to seek out those small differences, however as time has moved on NCRS judges have gotten better at discerning these differences and making deductions for NTFP. C'est la vie.

Qui, Laissez le bon temps rouler

[Michael G.]

Re: NCRS judging quality today vs. mid/latter 1980's

John, I own a 63 that achieved all those awards, plus a triple crown, in the late 80s and early 90s. It then sat for almost twenty years in a collection, so it was pretty much as judged when I bought it.

When I decided that the slight patina it had gained over the years was too much for judging, I decided to re-restore it. To gauge how much would be necessary, I took the body off and asked John Hinckley to come over to look at the chassis. While you could still eat off of the frame (if you liked dusty food), the list of incorrect parts that John found in a once-over was almost laughable. The body was similarly incorrect.

To understand how a car could get all those awards, yet not really be very correct, you have to look through the pink NCRS judging guide that was used to judge it. There is no comparison to today's JG.
Its about 10 percent of the thickness of today's guide and there is nowhere near the thoroughness of today's information.

SO, without having your car judged today, its difficult to say whether the awards in the 80s were issued to a really original car (that might still have those parts) and might do well today, or, quite possibly, one like mine, whose blue gas tank and many other discrepancies were somehow missed in all that judging.

If you intend to buy such a car, I'd find an expert to go over it with you before purchase, or you might be chasing rare and expensive original parts for the next two years...

[Joe R.]

Re: NCRS judging quality today vs. mid/latter 1980's

One of the goals of the NCRS has been to educate the public and mostly the owners of Corvettes as to how these cars were produced, distributed and sold. It has been a great success because of the great leaders from the conception of the NCRS. I have known and judged for every National Judging Chairman and these men have only had one goal in mind. Judge Corvettes as they left the assembly and sat on the showroom floor! Each Chairman has achieved that goal and more by working with the Team Leaders and judges. Now judges are more educated and recognized for their accomplishments. That is because of the work of each and every National Judging Chairman. I have owned several Top-Flight, Bloomington Gold and one Duntov Corvette from the 80's. Each of those Corvettes would receive some updating if I was going to take them to the judging field again. That's based on the great advances that have been made by the NCRS National Judging Chairmen, Team Leaders and Judges!

JR

[Michael H.]

Re: NCRS judging quality today vs. mid/latter 1980's

One of the goals of the NCRS has been to educate the public and mostly the owners of Corvettes as to how these cars were produced, distributed and sold. It has been a great success because of the great leaders from the conception of the NCRS. I have known and judged for every National Judging Chairman and these men have only had one goal in mind. Judge Corvettes as they left the assembly and sat on the showroom floor! Each Chairman has achieved that goal and more by working with the Team Leaders and judges. Now judges are more educated and recognized for their accomplishments. That is because of the work of each and every National Judging Chairman. I have owned several Top-Flight, Bloomington Gold and one Duntov Corvette from the 80's. Each of those Corvettes would receive some updating if I was going to take them to the judging field again. That's based on the great advances that have been made by the NCRS National Judging Chairmen, Team Leaders and Judges!

JR

You just trying to get a free NCRS T shirt or what?

[Ken R.]

Re: NCRS judging quality today vs. mid/latter 1980's

I also have been there and done that with my 65. First NCRS judging with it was in 1980. We have come a long way baby in knowledge. As others have said above, the judging level is much higher; both with informed judges but mainly I feel in the information that we now have on the cars and process. More attentition is given to the correct workings of items; i.e. in the slop of the vent window crank, idle rate of motor. The older paint back then was all lacquer so it passed. A 30 year older car has aged! Condition versus a new restored car is an item to look at on buying a car now. I like the original items no matter what.

[Keith B.]

Re: NCRS judging quality today vs. mid/latter 1980's

Look at it this way. Look how many pages the judging manuals have gotten over the years

[Kenneth B.]

Re: NCRS judging quality today vs. mid/latter 1980's

Very frequently NOS parts differed in some small way from the factory installed part, so IMO restoring with NOS parts is not something to boast about. I am aware not everyone shares that opinion, nor is everyone so picky as to seek out those small differences, however as time has moved on NCRS judges have gotten better at discerning these differences and making deductions for NTFP. C'est la vie.

TERRY speaks the truth! any of us that bought parts in the eighties knows that "NOS" over the counter were not always like the factory installed part. Later I learned the hard way that NOS is not necessarily factory. There were a lot of running changes so if you bought a part 10 years later chances are that it is not just like the factory installed one. I learned long ago to check original parts off the Corvette & compare it to the NOS one.

[Michael J.]

Re: NCRS judging quality today vs. mid/latter 1980's

This car is a good case in point to the comments here:

http://www.rkmotorscharlotte.com/sales/inventory/active#!/1963-Chevrolet-Corvette-Z06/134442/256494

A Top Flight regional winner in 1988 (99 points!), the very brief looking score sheets show the engine with no deductions, whereas now it is being advertised as having a "period correct" engine.

[Roy S.]

Re: NCRS judging quality today vs. mid/latter 1980's

This car is a good case in point to the comments here:

http://www.rkmotorscharlotte.com/sales/inventory/active#!/1963-Chevrolet-Corvette-Z06/134442/256494

A Top Flight regional winner in 1988 (99 points!), the very brief looking score sheets show the engine with no deductions, whereas now it is being advertised as having a "period correct" engine.

This is not a representative example of then and now with respect to NCRS judging standards. Based on revelations regarding this car that date back to its Colorado life, a purported Restorer Article which I have never looked for, and research done by numerous NCRS members, the description should probably indicate the sellers have purchased the car back twice within the last few months.. Enough said.