67 base engine will not start, need help

[Joseph U.]

Pulled my 67 into the garage to repair headlight motors last May, fixed the motors then went away for the summer and most of the fall. Went to take a drive last week and I can't get the car to start. Not the battery (as it turns over nicely and I recharged it anyway), not the gas (as I can smell the gas and even put some in the top of the cab). What happens when I turn the key is a normal crank, then it seems to catch once, fire and then just turn without continuing to run. I even pumped the gas peddle enough once to get it to backfire out of the carb - wow - what a noise, and a little flame - lucky for me the hood was up or it could have meant new paint. Anyway I checked all the wires and everything seems to be in place. I doubt it is the spark plugs - since to have all 8 go at once would be unusual. Before I just start replacing things (like the condenser and the coil) does anyone have any ideas on how I could narrow this down.
Thanks for the help.
Joe

[Stephen L.]

Re: 67 base engine will not start, need help

1. Check fuel availability by looking into the throat of the carb and opening the throttle to observe if there is a fuel stream from the accelerator pump into the engine. If there is a fuel stream present in step one then look into the ignition system. 2. Remove top shielding from the distributor. Remove the high voltage coil wire from the distributor and hold it close to a ground point while a helper attempts to start the engine. If you have a spark to ground then the ignition can be presumed to be operational. Did you do any work on the engine, such as distributor removal etc., which could have affected timing? Post results here for additional hints on which area might require additional troubleshooting.Good luck

[Joseph U.]

Re: 67 base engine will not start, need help

Thanks Stephen,
I did not do any engine work.
I will check the high voltage wire - Can I assume any part of the engine block would be reasonable ground point?
After all I don't want to shock me and activate my heart.
Joe

[Stephen L.]

Re: 67 base engine will not start, need help

Nearly anything metal in the area will be grounded. Just DON"T hold the wire close to the end and keep the metal end close, 1/8" or less, to a ground point.

[Dennis O.]

Re: 67 base engine will not start, need help

Once I stored my '70 LS5 over the winter, and in the spring, it wouldn't start. Somehow, over the winter, the points had closed up. Reset 'em and it started right up. How the points could change over the winter (corrosion, perhaps) is beyond me, but I swear it happened. What does it take to check the gap, anyway.

[Joseph U.]

Re: 67 base engine will not start, need help

Thanks again Steven,
I figured I would hold the wire pretty far from the end, but I did not realize I needed to be that close to the block - I was figuring about an inch.
Very good to know.
Thanks again, I will post how it goes as soon as I can get to the car.
Weather is nice here in Florida and would like to take a ride.
Joe

[Joseph U.]

Re: 67 base engine will not start, need help

Another great - and easy thing to check.
May do that first.
Thanks Dennis.
Joe

[Larry M.]

Re: 67 base engine will not start, need help

A backfire through the carb MAY result in a blown power valve on the Holley. This should not prevent starting, but could show up as a rich mixture when driving the car. So watch for this after car is running.

In addition to the above recommendations by Steve and Dennis, I would verify

1. That I have 12 volts to the coil (+terminal) when cranking the engine
2. Make certain the points are clean and gapped (as already mentioned) and that they open and close as the engine is cranked. Or if you have a dwell meter, simply hook it up and read the dwell when the engine is cranked. Should show about 28 degrees dwell. I believe that this (correct dwell) will also verify that the condenser is not grounded/shorted.
3. Do not replace the shielding over the top of the distributor until after you get the engine running. Many folks have found that the top shielding can also ground out the coil or distributor wire(s).

If you have fuel and spark, it should fire up. Unless the timing is way, way off. This can be checked with a timing light and a helper, if needed to be verified. (It can also be done by yourself, but this will involve additional steps to explain this method)


This assumes a factory point type distributor. If you or a previous owner have converted to a Petronix or other electronic distributor, then the recommendations will change.

Larry

[Gerard F.]

Re: 67 base engine will not start, need help

Joe,

Sounds like a fuel/carb problem to me. You let it sit for a long time and the fuel bowls dried out along with the gaskets, then you stomped on it, primed the carb, and gave it too much fuel at once, flooded it.

Try just hitting the gas pedal twice before you start to set the choke, then as you crank just hold the gas pedal partially down until it starts, let it run on the choke until it warms up.
Avoid stomping on it when it is cold.

Same thing happened to me in my 67 base engine after sitting for a while. It ran lousy after I got it started and was actually leaking fuel from the fuel bowl gaskets. After running for a while and warming up, everything when back to normal.

Be careful to sop up any leaked fuel around the carb.

[Timothy B.]

Re: 67 base engine will not start, need help

Joseph,

Try not to over think it, sounds like the engine is flooded. After you wet the plugs bad enough problems like what you experience can happen even to the point of needing to change plugs because of the flooding. If you are careful, they can be cleaned and re-used.

After you get the engine to run check when the last time it had a tune up. "Tune up" are words we don't use much anymore. :-)

[Duke W.]

Re: 67 base engine will not start, need help

Joseph,

Try not to over think it, sounds like the engine is flooded. After you wet the plugs bad enough problems like what you experience can happen even to the point of needing to change plugs because of the flooding. If you are careful, they can be cleaned and re-used.

My bet is this is the problem... did it once to my Honda CB1100F. I ended up changing the wet plugs, and it finally started.

I drained the carbs between monthly rides and kept the fuel valve closed while garaged, but with the fuel valve open fuel only flows to the valve and carbs if there is vacuum in the venturi of one of the carbs, which acts on a diaphragm valve in series with the manual valve to allow fuel to flow to the carb bowls. - a safety feature.

I finally came up with a surefire starting method. With the manual valve open I cranked it 5-10 revolutions, which allowed fuel to flow into the bowls. Then I set the choke, gave the throttle a couple of twists to activate the accelerator pump, waited at least thirty seconds, then cranked, and it would usually start right up.

The same method can be used on a carbureted car that has sat for a long time and the fuel has evaporated from the bowls.

1. Without touching the throttle crank the engine 5-10 revs to allow the fuel pump to fill up the bowls.

2. Pump the throttle one to three times to add fuel to the throttle bores and set the choke valve.

3. Wait at least 30 seconds to give the pump shots time to evaporate.

4. Crank engine.

If you want to avoid the wear and tear on the starter motor and battery, use a syringe to inject a few cc of fuel into the carb bowl through a bowl vent. Then just do the normal cold start procedure.

Duke

[Joe C.]

Re: 67 base engine will not start, need help

If the engine was flooded, then I'd expect that the OP would have yesterday done the basic and time honored procedure for clearing a flooded, carbureted engine: mash the throttle and leave it on the floorboards while cranking the engine with the throttles wide open (choke unloader should open the choke butterfly if it's adjusted properly) until the engine clears and starts, whereupon the throttle should be slowly released.

If the ignition system is still original design, then wet plugs might require removal if they are badly fouled, although this is rarely necessary. Of course, he wouldn't have had this problem in the first place if your ignition system was upgraded.

[Steven B.]

Re: 67 base engine will not start, need help

It does sound like a fuel delivery problem. If it were an ignition failure, there would not have been a backfire. Assuming nothing has been done to the ignition system, and all was well before the car sat, then if the fuel system can be sorted out, the car should run. Flooding does sound like the problem.

Steve

[John D.]

Re: 67 base engine will not start, need help

How about a shot of quick start spray ? If the engine catches then you know it's a fuel problem..

[Stuart F.]

Re: 67 base engine will not start, need help

Using the starting spray on an engine with 10 to 1 or greater compression is not a good idea. The usual result is a lot of spark knock - ouch! A few months back, we looked at a 69 with an L-89 engine that had been sitting for quite a while. It too would not start after the owner got a slight kick from the engine, then proceeded to pump the throttle until it flooded. He let it sit for a while then used starting spray and that baby rattled for a good 10 seconds. I know they use it in NASCAR pits when an engine stalls and won't refire, but I suspect it is something other than what we can get commercially.

Stu Fox