'65 396 Won't Start After Ignition Shielding Install

[James W.]

After removing the plug wires and coil lead wires to reinstall the ignition shielding on the L78 equipped '65 it will not start. I've looked at all the wiring connections for the TI harness, etc. and can't find any visible signs of a problem. All plug wires are connected per the AIM, etc. and coil lead wires are connected black to negative and white to positive as they were when they were removed.

The car will crank fine but doesn't want to fire until I release the switch from the start position and them I get a momentary ignition like the car want to start but that's it.

The TI box has been converted to solid state components. The temp in the garage was about 40 degrees F. Prior to reinstalling the ignition shielding yesterday the car hadn't been started for about three to four weeks when the temps were in the 60 to 70 degree range.


Any help would be greatly appreciated.


Thanks,

James West

[John H.]

Re: '65 396 Won't Start After Ignition Shielding Install

The car will crank fine but doesn't want to fire until I release the switch from the start position and them I get a momentary ignition like the car want to start but that's it.

James -

If the car had points instead of T.I., I'd point you to the coil bypass circuit from the "R" terminal on the starter solenoid to the coil (+) terminal being open/disconnected, as that will cause exactly the same symptom you describe. I don't know anything about T.I., but if it has a similar circuit, that could be an issue; maybe someone familiar with T.I. will chime in.

[James W.]

Re: '65 396 Won't Start After Ignition Shielding Install

John,

Thanks for your reply. I'll check the "R" terminal at the starter solenoid just to be sure.

James

[Ken A.]

Re: '65 396 Won't Start After Ignition Shielding Install

Did it quit starting after installing the "solid state" stuff? Does it start without the top shield? If so, rotate the coil until the terminal isn't grounded.

[Jim R.]

Re: '65 396 Won't Start After Ignition Shielding Install

Jim If thats all you did you might want to check the coil wire it is possible pulling it off may have damaged it, and ohm meter will let you know quick.

[James W.]

Re: '65 396 Won't Start After Ignition Shielding Install

Did it quit starting after installing the "solid state" stuff? Does it start without the top shield? If so, rotate the coil until the terminal isn't grounded.

Ken,

The car had the solid state TI guts before the problem started. The only thing that has changed is that the wires were removed from the coil and distributor cap to reinstall the ignition shield "box". I did not put the top shield cover on the car.

Would or could there be a coil ground issue between the coil body and the coil bracket??? This is something else that was changed. I had the coil bracket replated and repainted the coil body. I have 1/8 " clearance between the coil body and the intake manifold. All braided ignition wiring ground wires have been reinstalled.

[James W.]

Re: '65 396 Won't Start After Ignition Shielding Install

Jim,

That is on my list to check when I get back to working on the car on Friday.

Thanks,

James West

[Ken A.]

Re: '65 396 Won't Start After Ignition Shielding Install

The coil does not have to be grounded. Sounds like your coil is wired backwards or your solid state took an inopportune dump. Also, I see you removed all the wires from the distributor cap. I would triple check their reinstallation as, many before you, have found a crossed wire or two.

[Carl N.]

Re: '65 396 Won't Start After Ignition Shielding Install

make sure the brackets which the plug wires ground to are grounded at the intake bolts and that the plug wires are secure (all the way down on the studs) on the brackets. also make sure you have as much clearance as possible between the coil wires and the lower chrome "box" the fit can be very close and you may want to put a small strip of plastic between the coil wire leads and the metal - let us know what you find out the cause is. if all of this fails plus above suggestions, put on normal wires and see if the problem goes away - some of the braided wires are junk

[George W.]

Re: '65 396 Won't Start After Ignition Shielding Install

make sure the brackets which the plug wires ground to are grounded at the intake bolts and that the plug wires are secure (all the way down on the studs) on the brackets. also make sure you have as much clearance as possible between the coil wires and the lower chrome "box" the fit can be very close and you may want to put a small strip of plastic between the coil wire leads and the metal - let us know what you find out the cause is. if all of this fails plus above suggestions, put on normal wires and see if the problem goes away - some of the braided wires are junk

I agree with Carl; make sure the chrome lid above the wires has plastic shield and electrical tape cover on the metal over the plastic to insure proper ground...I saw this happen and proper shield is the solution. Good luck.

[Richard M.]

Re: '65 396 Won't Start After Ignition Shielding Install

I think I may know where your problem lies. I had your exact same problem on a '67 TI system a few years ago. It was my first TI experience, and I learned a lot.

Crank, then release the key, and you get a slight ignition and run attempt. Like a non TI with a bad ballast resistor as John mentioned. My problem was a lost connection inside the distributor pickup coil. Specifically, I had a cold solder joint inside the windings of the coil which I was able to disassemble and repair.

But......In your case, 2 possibilities.

1 - As in my case, you possibly lost your connection to the pickup coil in the distributor. More specifically, a broken connection at the 2 wire connector between your TI harness and the short 2 wire distributor lead, or a broken wire where the 2 wire harness enters the distributor or inside the distributor.

A easy test for this is......
Disconnect the 2 wire plug between the dist and TI harness. Should be a white and a white/green pair. Connect the 2 leads of a ohmmeter to the 2 dist leads. Crank the engine and look for about 500-700 ohms as the dist turns. If not, you have a bad pickup coil or broken wire(s).

If above tests good.........then possibly,

2A-
edit....This is for the 66 up type TI:
A bad TI harness resistor wire. Disconnect your plug at the TI Module. Check with ohmmeter between the plug Black terminal and the coil + White wire. You can leave that wire connected at the coil. The resistance wire spec is apx 0.7 ohms. You should get one ohm or so including meter lead resistance. If you read infinity, the resistor wire is bad, or broken internal connection in the harness. This may be repairable if you open it up and check solder connections.

2B-
edit....This is if you have the original 64-65 type TI:
Check with ohmmeter between the grounded Black terminal at the TI Module and the coil - White wire. Same diagnosis as 2A above.

Here are a few documents to reference from Dave Fiedler, who has helped me much in the past with my TI issues.

http://tispecialty.com/articles/64-65diagram.htm

http://tispecialty.com/articles/66-71diagram.htm

http://tispecialty.com/articles/64-65.pdf

http://tispecialty.com/articles/66-71.pdf

and a doc referencing some differences of the versions....

http://tispecialty.com/articles/article5.htm

Rich

[Richard M.]

Re: '65 396 Won't Start After Ignition Shielding Install

James,

I just re-read your 1st post. Ignore my above post,

If you have white wire to coil + and black to coil -, and if original type 64-65 TI system.......

They are reversed.

Rich

http://tispecialty.com/articles/64-65diagram.htm

[James W.]

Re: '65 396 Won't Start After Ignition Shielding Install

Carl,

Thanks for your reply. One of the cars that I have pictures of the coil lead wires is your car. Obviously the way you have them connected to the coil works. I need to know if you TI box is converted to the solid state internals or if this is a 66/67 TI system. Just trying to eliminate all the "what ifs" during my diagnosis. It's funny the car starts and runs great with the same shielded wires with no ground straps hooked but as soon as I reistalled the lower chrome box and reinstalled the plug wire grounds things went south. Any change that if the plug wire ground straps are not "tight" on the stud on the ingition shielding bracket the car would not start? I don't think this would be an issue since the car started and ran great without them being attached to anything while we were workikng on timing/tuning the car. As I understand it the plug wire ground straps are to eliminate radio noise?

Happy Thanksgiving,

James West

make sure the brackets which the plug wires ground to are grounded at the intake bolts and that the plug wires are secure (all the way down on the studs) on the brackets. also make sure you have as much clearance as possible between the coil wires and the lower chrome "box" the fit can be very close and you may want to put a small strip of plastic between the coil wire leads and the metal - let us know what you find out the cause is. if all of this fails plus above suggestions, put on normal wires and see if the problem goes away - some of the braided wires are junk

[Michael H.]

Re: '65 396 Won't Start After Ignition Shielding Install

James

Richard Mozzetta is correct. The coil primary wire colors are reversed for 64-65. The white resistance wire is supposed to be attached to the negative terminal and the black wire to the positive.


For 66-67 and later, it's opposite. White is positive and black is negative.

[Ken A.]

Re: '65 396 Won't Start After Ignition Shielding Install

If , when you ground the shielding, the car won't start, then you have "leaky" wires.