partial or full originality deduction? 1961 seat belts & exhaust questions

[Leonard T.]

what deductions would be expected in these two instances, full or partial?:
1. seat belts are aftermarket, female buckle is very similar to original buckle, lift flap to release, not push bottom type, etc, male end is not at all like original configuration, webbing is new ..
2. exhaust is custom made front to back, 2.5" not 2" , it is routed just as original, finished black as original, mufflers are flow master, and hangers are not original style but are at correct positions..


would these be full originality deductions or receive large partial deduction instead, ie would condition points still be available in both cases...

thank you for your advise..

[Tracy C.]

Re: partial or full originality deduction? 1961 seat belts & exhaust questions

Interesting question because a case could be made for both answers.. We haven't seen your items, It could go either way based on the collective opinion of the judging team on the day of judging.

For the sake of discussion, here goes...

The 8th edition of the Judging Reference Manual allows for a full deductions for items that are "significantly different" that the OEM piece. This determination is up to the judge, but if exercised must be signed off by the Team Leader to stick.

That said, the item still must pass the standard criteria for originality if a full deduct is not taken.

Originality points for each line item(s) on the judging sheet are scored based 5 elements that are worth 20% of the score. Configuration - Date - Completeness - Installation - Finish (CDCIF). Variances found in each of these areas constitute grounds for the 20% deduction for that element.

Based on your description,

Both seat belts and exhaust lose the "Configuration" element

Both items lose the "Date" element (these configurations post date the car's build date)

Both items possibily retain the "Installation" element. We don't know how the seat belts are installed (anchor style). Exhaust possibily OK based on your description.

Both items will likely lose the "Finish" element due to platings of individual components that make up the whole.

Unless the installation of these items can salvage it's 20% of the originally score, you will also lose all of the condition points too. (full deduct)

If you don't have the 8th edition of the Judging Reference Manual and the Judging Guide for you car, buy them and read them. This is all explained in detail therein.

Good Luck with the car,
tc

[Leonard T.]

Re: partial or full originality deduction? 1961 seat belts & exhaust questions

Thanks Tracy, i do have the correct seat belt hambones and tensioners, so will install the new belts using those anchors to hopefully retain at least some points on installation, while i wait, (forever) for the correct belts/buckles to arrive. thanks for pointing out the anchor points on the seat belts..

on the custom exhaust, since the entire system IS finished correctly in black, i thought that possibly could save the 20% "finish" section points ...

[Terry M.]

Re: partial or full originality deduction? 1961 seat belts & exhaust questions

Thanks Tracy, i do have the correct seat belt hambones and tensioners, so will install the new belts using those anchors to hopefully retain at least some points on installation, while i wait, (forever) for the correct belts/buckles to arrive. thanks for pointing out the anchor points on the seat belts..

on the custom exhaust, since the entire system IS finished correctly in black, i thought that possibly could save the 20% "finish" section points ...

Len, Look at the score sheets, in addition to the two manuals Tracy references.
1) Are seatbelts on a line by themselves?
2) Is the exhaust system, mufflers & hangers/hardware on one line, or two or three?

The answers to these questions will also make a significant difference in the determination you are looking for.
Don't have the score sheets? Click MEMBER SERVICES at the top of this page. Bottom entry on the drop-down box is SCORE SHEETS. Click there and chose the appropriate year(s) & section(s). In your case Interior & Chassis.

[William C.]

Re: partial or full originality deduction? 1961 seat belts & exhaust questions

Actually, 100% black on the exhaust would not be correct either, and finish on the metal should be visible and judged if other than carbon steel.