knock-off wheels

[John C.]

I have a question about knock-off wheels for anyone who knows about them. I'm considering putting a set on my 65 because I'm not that wild about the OEM hubcaps, in fact, I think they are rather ugly compared to the 66 hubcaps. I ran across a guy who has a set of new OEM knock-off wheels and these are the real deal as I understand it. If I understand correctly, there is an adapter that bolts to the hub assy with 5 lug bolts and this adapter has the center spindle that the wheel mounts to by way of the threaded spinner. The aftermarket replica is a direct bolt with the 5 lugs just like most modern day wheels ??????? SO, if these OEM wheels are the correct color ( which is my next question ) and they are in near perfect condition, what are they worth ? Is the color between the fins supposed to be black or dark gray ? Center hubs are supposed to be chrome, right ? Last question, are they trustworthy or should I go with the aftermarket direct bolt version ? JC

[Adam S.]

Re: knock-off wheels

originality is everything I would keep your wheels if they are original to the car you would have points deducted if not original. real knock offs were not avail until 64 and later. if your build sheet shows that option I would change them to match? real knock offs need an adapter that has 10 holes the orginals were made by Kelsey hays then western wheel and so on they are grey ,hubs chrome and spindles have specific colors and markings that show the direction to remove them. don't forget the spare too?

[Paul J.]

Re: knock-off wheels

...If I understand correctly, there is an adapter that bolts to the hub assy with 5 lug bolts and this adapter has the center spindle that the wheel mounts to by way of the threaded spinner. The aftermarket replica is a direct bolt with the 5 lugs just like most modern day wheels ???????... SO, if these OEM wheels are the correct color ( which is my next question ) and they are in near perfect condition, what are they worth ? Is the color between the fins supposed to be black or dark gray ? Center hubs are supposed to be chrome, right ? Last question, are they trustworthy or should I go with the aftermarket direct bolt version ? JC

John, I'll describe this as best as I remember it. Your description of the adapter is correct. This was used for (63), 64, and 65 knock off wheels and is the same whether OEM or reproduction. 66 "knock off" wheels were bolt on, the same for OEM or reproduction. (63)-64 wheels were plain between the spokes. 65-66 wheels were painted black between the spokes. All center hubs were polished chrome except for 66, which were brushed (I believe).

There is nothing wrong with the quality of reproduction knock offs. The only complaints that I have heard were regarding problems with not tightening them properly, which can happen with OEM wheels also. The reproduction wheels (Western?) had thicker spokes and are discernable from OEM, although I heard something last year about some reproduction wheels with thinner spokes.

Paul

[Alan D.]

Re: knock-off wheels

Here are a couple of pictures that may help out when looking at the wheels. You will want the long nuts to locate the adapters correctly.

[Wayne M.]

Re: knock-off wheels

Here's another two pics showing details of the fin width and rim detail, as well as an overall shot showing the gray (grey ?) paint. there's probably another 50 shades out there . This wheel is from a set of 5 unrestored 1966 KO's (probably) off VIN # 13162.





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[Donald L.]

Re: knock-off wheels

Paul are you saying 66 where bolt on? 67 where the 1st bolt on wheels, 66 was knock off same as 64-65

[John C.]

Re: knock-off wheels

Paul are you saying 66 where bolt on? 67 where the 1st bolt on wheels, 66 was knock off same as 64-65

That is the way I understood it, that 67 s were bolt on. Very enlightening information guys, I appreciate it very much. I didn't get a chance to go look at the wheels today, but when I do, I'll update yall as to what he has. Thx, JC

[Dennis O.]

Re: knock-off wheels

Just make sure those knock-off wheels aren't knock offs! Sorry, I couldn't resist!

[Roger P.]

Re: knock-off wheels

John, another easy way to know if the wheels are reproduction vs. original is the anti-theft "safety" pin on the aftermarket wheels. If the wheels that you are looking to buy have small half-round slots in the wheels and hubs, then they are not original. The aftermarket companies installed several of these slots on both the wheel and the hub adapter so the wheel could be tightened until two half-round slots aligned and created a full circular slot. Then, an aluminum safety pin (sold by most vendors) could be inserted to deter theft. Some guys install steel pins (solid or roll pins) in the slot as an added safety feature to ensure/hope that a wheel doesn't come loose while driving. Not everyone agrees with that approach, but I use steel roll pins for the added peace of mind. A thin layer of anti-seize is also recommended between the wheel & adapter and on the threads of the spinner when the wheels are installed. I also put a some on the safety pins. With all that said, I would buy a new set of direct bolt-on knock-off wheels that would give you the great look of knock-offs and the security of 5 lug nuts holding the wheels on your car. No lead hammer, anti-seize, pins, and checking to make sure the wheels aren't getting loose. I use a silver Sharpie to make a small line between the spinner and cone which I check to make sure they are aligned every time before I go for a ride. Keep your original steel rims and hubcaps in your garage for judging and/or resale down the road. Or you can buy 5 new bolt-on knock-offs and trade them for my beautiful 1990 vintage Western knock-offs . Good luck, Roger (50141)

[Paul J.]

Re: knock-off wheels

That is the way I understood it, that 67 s were bolt on. Very enlightening information guys, I appreciate it very much. I didn't get a chance to go look at the wheels today, but when I do, I'll update yall as to what he has. Thx, JC

Donald and John, you are correct. 67 wheels were bolt on, 66 were knock offs.

Paul

[William C.]

Re: knock-off wheels

'63-66 are true knockoffs but they use an adapter that bolts to the mounting flange that attaches the knockoff adapter to the wheel studs where the steel wheels would bolt to.

[John C.]

Re: knock-off wheels

John, another easy way to know if the wheels are reproduction vs. original is the anti-theft "safety" pin on the aftermarket wheels. If the wheels that you are looking to buy have small half-round slots in the wheels and hubs, then they are not original. The aftermarket companies installed several of these slots on both the wheel and the hub adapter so the wheel could be tightened until two half-round slots aligned and created a full circular slot. Then, an aluminum safety pin (sold by most vendors) could be inserted to deter theft. Some guys install steel pins (solid or roll pins) in the slot as an added safety feature to ensure/hope that a wheel doesn't come loose while driving. Not everyone agrees with that approach, but I use steel roll pins for the added peace of mind. A thin layer of anti-seize is also recommended between the wheel & adapter and on the threads of the spinner when the wheels are installed. I also put a some on the safety pins. With all that said, I would buy a new set of direct bolt-on knock-off wheels that would give you the great look of knock-offs and the security of 5 lug nuts holding the wheels on your car. No lead hammer, anti-seize, pins, and checking to make sure the wheels aren't getting loose. I use a silver Sharpie to make a small line between the spinner and cone which I check to make sure they are aligned every time before I go for a ride. Keep your original steel rims and hubcaps in your garage for judging and/or resale down the road. Or you can buy 5 new bolt-on knock-offs and trade them for my beautiful 1990 vintage Western knock-offs . Good luck, Roger (50141)

Very informative. I sure would like to see a pic of the hole for the roll pin just so I know what I'm looking at. I guess it really doesn't matter if they are the real deal or not since they won't be dated correctly and didn't come on the car from GM. I think I noticed in one of the pics posted that the OEM KO wheel had a " K-H " stamped on the inside of the wheel, for Kelsey-hayes. Is this correct ? I'm supposed to go look at the wheels tomorrow night and will let you guys know what I find .
JC

[Mike E.]

Re: knock-off wheels

John,

Here are some Western reproduction KO's I bought in the early 80's. Obviously the color is all wrong but fins are pretty close to the KH. Also notice the adapter in the last shot. The Right side will have grooves cut in the threads for pins. Original will NOT have the grooves.

One thing you might consider is buying a set of either bolt-on reproductions or (repo) knock offs and mounting some nice radials on them for diving and save your steel wheel with bias ply and hub caps for judging. You get the best of both worlds. If I decided to have my car judged that's what I will do. Keep in mind a minty set of 5 original K-H knock offs could exceed $10K.












Mike

[Philip A.]

Re: knock-off wheels

John
Be careful about "I ran across a guy who has a set of new OEM knock-off wheels and these are the real deal as I understand it. ". These could be service parts and dated well after 1965. 1964 and early 65 wheels had ink stamped date codes. Late 65 and after had them stamped into the rim backside. This is picked up on the spare when being judged.
Phil

[Roger P.]

Re: knock-off wheels

John,

Here are some Western reproduction KO's I bought in the early 80's. Obviously the color is all wrong but fins are pretty close to the KH. Also notice the adapter in the last shot. The Right side will have grooves cut in the threads for pins. Original will NOT have the grooves.

John, you can see the safety pin half-round grooves in the adapter photo that Mike posted. The spinners will have similar half-round grooves that will allow one full-round slot to align once the wheel is properly tightened. With the spinner cap off, a pin can be inserted and lightly tapped into place leaving about 1/4" of the pin sticking out into the cap so it can be pulled out with a vice grip or pliers when you want to remove the wheel. Let us know what you find when you see the used set. Keep in mind that a brand new, shiny set of repro knock-offs or bolt-on KO's are just over $2K. In my opinion, buy a set of the bolt-on KO's and get "the look" with the added safety of 5 lug nuts... and you can keep your current spare tire, too, since it will go on with the same lug nuts. Food for thought, Roger (50141)