I need advice on a car for sale

[Dale P.]

this issue has been dealt with many times over the years. However, I was cruising through some mid-years that are for sale and sure enough came across a 67 that My dad owned and then myself in the very early 70's I am not going to go into all the details, but I can assure you the car that is being sold .. surely isn't what it "was' of course the motor is original mileage is a lot lower that I can prove (through old titles in my possession) so where do I go? I know what the car really is. however, so do a few "important people" yet this car just keeps changing hands as being this mighty car. one way or the other over the years I have been in contact with the current owner >> all the way back to the early 1990's and each time the owner didn't want to hear my story on the car. Very shortly after most of those discussions the car disappeared and then re-appeared somewhere else.

So what to do?

[Gene M.]

Re: I need advice on a car for sale

Well, without knowing the VIN #, members do not know what car this is so they can stay away from it when looking at a purchase.

[Dale P.]

Re: I need advice on a car for sale

I am a little reluctant to actually post the VIN, the car "boasts" original motor, total restoration and a top flight status? Not sure how that can be.

[Joe L.]

Re: I need advice on a car for sale

this issue has been dealt with many times over the years. However, I was cruising through some mid-years that are for sale and sure enough came across a 67 that My dad owned and then myself in the very early 70's I am not going to go into all the details, but I can assure you the car that is being sold .. surely isn't what it "was' of course the motor is original mileage is a lot lower that I can prove (through old titles in my possession) so where do I go? I know what the car really is. however, so do a few "important people" yet this car just keeps changing hands as being this mighty car. one way or the other over the years I have been in contact with the current owner >> all the way back to the early 1990's and each time the owner didn't want to hear my story on the car. Very shortly after most of those discussions the car disappeared and then re-appeared somewhere else.

So what to do?

Dale-----


Odometer mileage on these cars means nothing---the odometers only go to 99,999.9. So, let's say that when you had the car the mileage was 75,000 but it now shows 32,000. That does not necessarily mean the odometer was "turned back". It could mean that the mileage went to 99,999.9 and "turned over". The real question is HOW MANY TIMES it "turned over between your 75,000 and today's 32,000. With these old cars, there's really no way of knowing.

Beware of any of these old cars with "low mileage". You have no way of knowing if that 15,000 mile car is really a 115,000 mile car, a 215,000 mile car, or a 315,000 mile car. I believe that in the VAST majority of cases, these "low mileage" cars are really cars that have "gone around" at least once.

[Bob H.]

Re: I need advice on a car for sale

if they specify 32000 ORIGINAL miles and it isn't then it is deceptive. Sounds like you stating it goes even beyond that. Did it grow 100 cubic inches? If I bought it and you came to me with indisputable evidence, I would certainly pursue legal action since it sounds like someone is about to pay big money for it

[Ara G.]

Re: I need advice on a car for sale

Dale,
from what I am gleaning from your post I think you do what you want...meaning if you are looking to buy the car because of the history you have with the car then pursue it. NCRS doesn't validate or verify a car, it simply judges and affirms if the components on the car meet typical factory production appearing items. That applies to the starter, engine pad, body fit, horns, etc. the judging sheets never affirm that the motor s original, the interior is original, etc..,just if it seems TFP or not. Good luck with your pursuit. I know the approach I would take with the seller if I were you....best regards. Ara

[Joe L.]

Re: I need advice on a car for sale

if they specify 32000 ORIGINAL miles and it isn't then it is deceptive. Sounds like you stating it goes even beyond that. Did it grow 100 cubic inches? If I bought it and you came to me with indisputable evidence, I would certainly pursue legal action since it sounds like someone is about to pay big money for it

Bob------


Any owner can state, for example, 32,000 original miles. As far as that particular owner knows, it is 32,000 original miles. Any particular owner, except one that owns the car when the odometer "turns over", can say that, as far as they know, the mileage shown on the odometer is the original mileage. Even the one that owns the car when the odometer "turns over" doesn't really know how many miles are on the car since he doesn't know how many times the odometer has "turned over". All that person could say, even if he were truthful, is that the car has, for example, 132,000 miles. The car could still have 232,000 or, even, 332,000 actual miles. The sad truth is that most of these cars have gone through an absolute plethora of owners in their lifetime.

Most of this problem (except for actual odometer fraud) would have been eliminated if the automakers had only added one digit to the odometers. But, in the old days, I guess manufacturers figured that by the time a car got to 100,000 miles, it would be junk. In most cases, they were right.

[Michael J.]

Re: I need advice on a car for sale

Like many of the other replies here, unless you are interested in buying the car, and want to confront the seller about the inaccuracies and want to make the car "honest" when you buy it, there is really nothing you can do. The number of people who have bought Corvettes, especially C2s, with inaccuracies in some or numerous places would boggle the mind. But you are not responsible for this car unless you are buying or selling it.

[Don H.]

Re: I need advice on a car for sale

Buy the car and make it back into what you know it really was when you and pops owned it. And then enjoy it. Otherwise, forget about it.

[Kenneth B.]

Re: I need advice on a car for sale

Buy the car and make it back into what you know it really was when you and pops owned it. And then enjoy it. Otherwise, forget about it.

Don't think he wants to buy the Corvette but only wants people to know that the car is not what it is being sold as like many Corvettes today.

[Gene M.]

Re: I need advice on a car for sale

.................................. but only wants people to know that the car is not what it is being sold as like many Corvettes today.

Not really (the part about "wants people to know") as no indication as to which car it is that is "false" other than it is a '67. That part is not a surprise......... By people I read that as persons not directly involved with the car's ownership.

So to answer his question "What to do?" Sounds like the answer he wants to hear is "nothing". I say that because each passed down owner just wants to unload the car and stay ignorant of it's past regardless of the poster's knowledge of the car. Keeping the blinders on, ears, mouth, and eyes shut. Just passing it off on the next guy. Sad situation!

[Michael J.]

Re: I need advice on a car for sale

This whole thread brings up a dilemma I have been thinking about for a while on my '67. I bought it several years ago from a famous dealer as "numbers match". I found out several years later, after thorough research by Billy Gould and NCRS judging, that the engine is actually a "restoration" engine, not the original, but the tank sticker has been NCRS verified so the car is a real L71, just not the engine it was born with. I plan to keep the car a long time, but am afraid when I pass it down to my son or daughter some day, the whole nightmare of that engine will come up again no matter how well I document the facts. I have even toyed with the idea of replacing the block with a bare block with only good broach marks and no stamps (I know of one that is the correct date). The question is, how do you make an honest car out of one by doing anything else?

[Don H.]

Re: I need advice on a car for sale

Your car is not a nightmare because it has a restoration engine in it and I doubt that your son or daughter will give a hoot or even know the difference between numbers matching and born with drive train. If you paid for born with DT and only got numbers matching with a restoration engine, then you MAY have paid a little too much. But now that you know it is NOM, but has a very good restoration engine with matching verified paper, you have a very good and valuable 67 that you can enjoy and pass down if you wish. No dilemma and no nightmare. Of course none of this helps OP one wit with his question about what to do about the 67 he owned in the 70s. As I said before, I am not sure why what is going on with that car is any concern of his now, unless he wants to buy it back.

[Domenic T.]

Re: I need advice on a car for sale

Bob------


Any owner can state, for example, 32,000 original miles. As far as that particular owner knows, it is 32,000 original miles. Any particular owner, except one that owns the car when the odometer "turns over", can say that, as far as they know, the mileage shown on the odometer is the original mileage. Even the one that owns the car when the odometer "turns over" doesn't really know how many miles are on the car since he doesn't know how many times the odometer has "turned over". All that person could say, even if he were truthful, is that the car has, for example, 132,000 miles. The car could still have 232,000 or, even, 332,000 actual miles. The sad truth is that most of these cars have gone through an absolute plethora of owners in their lifetime.

Most of this problem (except for actual odometer fraud) would have been eliminated if the automakers had only added one digit to the odometers. But, in the old days, I guess manufacturers figured that by the time a car got to 100,000 miles, it would be junk. In most cases, they were right.

Joe,
Your right but that extra didget opens fraud as now the dishonest will work the #s to read what they want.
I did some freelance mechanic work in the 70's and part was speedometer repair.
I really knew where the dealer was going with the repair but had to believe him as he was the one at risk at that time.
The work order read "repair speedo to read ########".
Their story was that the speedo was from a junk yard, the original was broken and they were installing it in another car to read that cars milage.

I had my speedo apart on my 67 as part of a total restoration and wanted to return it to (0) but let it stay where it was as I bought the 67 in 71 and the milage fit a drag car as it had a 4:11, dueces, and headers. I knew it didn't see the open road much and the milage fit a 4 year old car.

DOM

[William F.]

Re: I need advice on a car for sale

Right, unless one is the potential buyer, it's really none of your beeswax. Some buyers don't want to know facts or appreciate them if they are told. Up to buyer to do his home work and caveat emptor. If buyer wants to know something, he will ask you. Not taking up for shady practices or misrepresentation, just being realistic about danger and inappropriateness of trying to be a do gooder in this type situation.