1960 Top Tank Radiator Part number question

[Richard M.]

In this thread,

https://www.forums.ncrs.org/showthread.php?102380-radiator-replace-or-recore&p=678433#post678433

I show a Dewitt's TT purchased several years ago for a '60. According to info in my brain from Noland's book, the Spec guide, and Tom Dewitt's website, 1960 had 3 versions of the 3147516 aluminum radiator.....

1- Flat tank
2- Ribbed tank (5 ribs)
3- Ribbed tank (5 ribs) with sight plug

The part# for 1960 should be 3147516.
The part# for 1961 should be 3151116. (to apx vin 1700, then they switch to non TT using the expansion tank)

This one I have is a #3 type listed above, but has a Harrison plate is stamped 3151116 with a 60E date.(May 1960). Car is a June 23, built 1960.

Is this right church, wrong pew scenario? I think I have the correct rad but the plate should read "3147516 60E".

Opinions?

Rich
p.s. I'm so embarrassed but I have to tell you what happened yesterday while installing this radiator.....
I'm getting the fan shroud bolts lined up to get the whole shebang installed. I got the right top bolt finger tight, go to the left top. It's off a bit. Okay, simple, insert a small phillips in the top hole from the back, pry it up a little to line up the 2nd hole. I hear a loud POP, like the screwdriver slipped. I then see this object flying in the air above and in front of me. It was the top threaded insert in the side bracket. It's steel. I spent an hour looking all around for it, eyeballing all the nooks & crannies, magnets in the carbs, etc(I had a towel on the carbs but used it to cover the fender!). I never heard it hit anything. Frustrated after raising the car, looking all around the garage, inside every corner of the engine, rag boxes, under tables, even down inside the open rad fill hole, I gave up. Wife came in to help. She lost her diamond from her ring years ago after vacuuming. She found it later in the bottom shelf of the fridge door! I thought she'd be the one to find it. I go under the car and start banging things with my fist. Got to the right splash shield.......ting, ting! Hit again, and nothing. Darn, maybe it was the loose battery cable clamp. Nope. Different sound. Raise the car and not on the shield. Wife reaches up above the frame. She found it! Lodged between the top frame and the brake line. Good work! Now happy. Reinstalled the insert to the bracket and pulled it back in with the bolt. Finished the install after grinding the (repro)rad support holes a little. Everything lined up now. She made a nice dinner to boot and we laughed about it. Thanks wifey!

[Richard M.]

Re: 1960 Top Tank Radiator Part number question

Any 1960 1961 Top Tank radiator experts around?

I had 2 interesting and informative email conversations with Tom Dewitt yesterday.

There is confusion between the following documentation regarding part# usage for the 1960 Top Tank aluminum radiator.

NCRS Spec Guide
Noland Adams Guide
1958-1960 Judging Guide
1961-1962 Judging Guide

In particular, the 1958-1960 JG clearly disagrees with the 1961-1962 JG.

1958-1960 Judging Guide, pg 74....
".....270 and 290 hp 1960 models......radiator number 3147516"

1961-1962 Judging Guide, pg 78....
"Early 1961 used high performance 1960 type Harrison aluminum radiator number 3151116......"

Nowhere could I find the date that the radiator part# changed from 3147516 to 3151116, or what caused the change.

Rich

[Jim L.]

Re: 1960 Top Tank Radiator Part number question

According to info in my brain from Noland's book, the Spec guide, and Tom Dewitt's website, 1960 had 3 versions of the 3147516 aluminum radiator.....

1- Flat tank
2- Ribbed tank (5 ribs)
3- Ribbed tank (5 ribs) with sight plug

Not to stir the pot on this one, but apparently there was (at least one) flat tank with a sight plug:





Jim

[Richard M.]

Re: 1960 Top Tank Radiator Part number question

Jim, That's a great photo. Thanks for posting it.

Any info about that car.....10-21-59 with a -20 under it. Early build?

Rich

[Jim L.]

Re: 1960 Top Tank Radiator Part number question

Rich, about all I know for sure is that it is a GM photo.

One could speculate that the top tank in the picture started life without the hole and that it was altered as part of the development process for the tanks with the plug.

In any event it's clear the vehicle was a development mule because there are several oddities in the engine area:


1. smooth top tank with hole
2. early style hood latches
3. odd coating on radiator fan shroud
4. air cleaner nut plate in inner fender but no air cleaner
5. date on underside of hood

Jim

[Loren L.]

Re: 1960 Top Tank Radiator Part number question

First, the label shown on your top tank does NOT conform to the label shown on the blueprints for the 116 and 516. The blueprint for 516 does call it out as "1961 Chevrolet Corvette". If Jim has the original of the photo, does the outer ring of the photo call out the "Engineering #" assigned to the car? As he calls out, the photo's variables would seemingly indicate that it is an Engineering mule.
I should also mention that I have a 116 derelict radiator in the garage with a tag dated 60B; it has the ribs and the sight hole, but would seemingly pre-date those changes - it may be simply that this tag was removed from the original radiator and put on a replacement.
One of the differences between the 116 and the 516 is in the drain petcock, but even the change was to a similar design, so delay in getting it to production might have been minimal. But there were numberous running changes, 45 listed on the 516 blueprint and 8 more shown on the 116 blueprint so variances in detail may exist in original radiators. It is known, for instance, that the "sight holes" were added to the two Cunningham cars at Sebring by the St Louis RPE, Phil Passon and Ed Cole. There is also a picture of Dr Thompson attempting repairs to #2 (VIN #3535) on the course of Sebring with a flat top tank and it should be noted, a 7017320 FI unit.

[Richard M.]

Re: 1960 Top Tank Radiator Part number question

Thanks Loren, That 116 with the 60B tag is very strange. Maybe the tag was swapped as you think.

Does your info specify a date when the drain petcock change happened? Tom feels that the part number changed when the ribs came along, but he says somewhere else the number changed with the drain petcock was added to the assembly.

Interesting......I see in the new Driveline that Dewitt's ad shows a picture of the 1960 radiator, with a part# of 3147516 pasted on top of it.

Last talk I had with Tom, he offered to get me a new plate with the number changed to 3147516 if we think it should be that.


Thanks,
Rich

[Loren L.]

Re: 1960 Top Tank Radiator Part number question

If I'm reading the small print correctly, it appears to be 6/1/60. The print also recites that the drain is to be "installed by the customer" and will shipped attached to the lower part of the radiator.

[Richard M.]

Re: 1960 Top Tank Radiator Part number question

If I'm reading the small print correctly, it appears to be 6/1/60. The print also recites that the drain is to be "installed by the customer" and will shipped attached to the lower part of the radiator.

Thanks Loren, That's really interesting. Tom thought the part# changed when the 5 rib tank happened. So they changed the assembly number by adding some plumbing. This car here is a late June build, so it looks like the 3151116 plate is probably good. I'll tell Tom about your research. He may want to consider numbering his pre-June radiators with 3147516. Thanks for digging into it.

Rich

[Loren L.]

Re: 1960 Top Tank Radiator Part number question

The 6-1-60 is a blueprint date, NOT a production date.

[Richard M.]

Re: 1960 Top Tank Radiator Part number question

I clearly understand that........that it takes time to get it to production. Since we'll never know exactly how long it took in this case, I'm guessing a simple addition of a small part added(taped) to the assembly could be relatively short time. This car was 3 weeks from the blueprint date, so I'd think it made it by then. There probably weren't that many HP cars requiring this radiator. This leads me to believe there were not many in inventory of the old number. All speculation of course.

I sent the blueprint info to Tom and he was happy it's been confirmed with a real date. He had no idea before. I told Tom you found the info.

Thanks,
Rich