67 battery judging question

[Ron N.]

I've gotten Top Flight in the last 2 regional judging but fell short of a 97 raw score. One of the areas I'm trying for improvement is in the 7 point battery deduction. I have a Restoration R59 battery in my 67. I don't fully understand the difference from an OEM / original R59 battery or what I can do to improve the score.

- Is there anything I can do with my Restoration Battery to improve on the 7 point deduction?
- Does anyone have pictures of an original R59 they can send me?
- Turbo Start is producing an R59 battery they claim is designed on OEM specs. Does anyone know how it is / will be judged?

Thanks for any information you can provide.

[Steve B.]

Re: 67 battery judging question

Ron, there's not much that you can do . A restoration battery has a slight outer lip on the top that the originals do not have. The biggest difference is the feel between the two. The restoration battery has a hard plastic case where the originals have more of a rubber feel to it.

[Ron N.]

Re: 67 battery judging question



I should have included the attached information on The Turbo Start R59 battery.

[Ara G.]

Re: 67 battery judging question

Ron, typically the first item judges will look at is the upper cap portion of the battery. Generally repro batteries have a lip to them that you can feel with your hands as you run your hand up the battery from the bottom of the battery towards the top. Not sure if anyone is making one that will pass judging. Email me and I will shot you some pics of an original one. Congrats on your top flights. You are smart to try and "correct" the bigger deduct items but I bet there are other items you got on the sheets that you can work on as we'll as the battery that will get you where you need to be. I look at my judging sheets as a homework assignment. Tackle the easier to do items then focus on the more time consuming. Plan your work then work your plan. You'll get your 97. Good luck! Ara. Nyrfan@bellsouth.net

[Bill M.]

Re: 67 battery judging question

one of the reasons that i dont bother with judging anymore. where on this earth are you going to fine a working dependable 1967 battery? how are you going to drive safely on a set of 1967 bias ply tires? i would like to see at some age we be allowed even advised to instal dependable and safe equipment on our cars. just my 2 cents.
Bill

[Don H.]

Re: 67 battery judging question

You put in an original battery if you can find one to get your 97 score, if you cannot get there any other way (I'll bet you can). But you can drive your car on modern tires and battery and still enjoy having it judged. You take the standard deducts for the new equipment and make up for it with driving mile points. Many people do this at all meets. Driving mile points will not apply to get you over the 97 threshold for your Duntov, Hill or McLellan, but will get you into TF range. So, have it both ways, and enjoy!

[Jack H.]

Re: 67 battery judging question

You may not want to hear this, Ron. But....

If you're short from the 97.0% target, that's at LEAST 135 judging points that were taken on other items. Restoration batteries aren't cheap ($300 range) and if you're looking to replace what you have to gain a whooping 7 points maximum, that's poor restoration economic ($/judging point). Are you sure you aren't better off letting the battery slide and go work on those other items/issues where you'll get more bang for your buck?

[William F.]

Re: 67 battery judging question

Bill. I agree and have said it before. Don't want Corvettes to be customized but why not allow modern batteries , radial tires without deduct? I'd also quit looking for "2 wires from distributor" if someone wants to substitute an electronic trigger for points(yes, I know there's a one wire trigger, but some like Pertronix type better). Last lead judge wouldn't hear of it ; maybe a reasonable change under new administration???

[Mark D.]

Re: 67 battery judging question

Original batteries can be found and then modified to last forever but, I admit, it is expensive.

I think that allowing components that clearly deviate from original to escape with no points deduction waters down the standard. I hope that will never be allowed. On 68-72, there is not a deduction for current technology rubber brake hoses. I respectfully disagree with that approach and feel a minor deduction is warranted.

I get it...parts are getting harder and harder to find. I appreciate what you guys are saying but, the standard has to be upheld. With that in mind, I feel a small deduction is warranted so the cars with original components are rewarded.

[Jack H.]

Re: 67 battery judging question

But, Don Hooper already gave the answer... You CAN have all these aftermarket improvements on your car without a final award penalty!

The judges see the items, take appropriate deduction(s) for them and uphold the club's standard (as originally made by Chevrolet and delivered to the original owner) and then you get all or more of your 'lost points' back at the bottom of the Scoring Summary Sheet in the form of mileage driven credit(s)...

What you can't do is have all those non-stock goodies on the car and go pursue/capture an NCRS Mark Of Excellence Award. So, I don't see any reason for NCRS to abandon/change the current judging stance.

The items you cite really apply to cars that are used/driven. A 'trailer queen' car is essentially a piece of art executed/dedicated to automotive history. It doesn't really want/need the items you're listing. Bottom line, there is no conflict.

I don't know of any other factory concours Corvette judging organization that lets owners have it both ways like NCRS does...

[Chris E.]

Re: 67 battery judging question

Hi Ron, you and I met at the Frisco meet back in 2011. I faced the same challenge you are facing now on the 7 point standard deduct for the battery. I have a Restoration Battery in my car also.

I looked at the other solutions presented and thought it was better to try and make up points elsewhere.

Can you give us a sense for how the rest of the car did? How did you do in Ops?

[Bill M.]

Re: 67 battery judging question

all i am saying is that if we hope to bring the next generation of kids into the hobby we are going to have to be practical when it comes to items that just dont exist. most of the cars do not have "original starters,alternators, wiper motors " yet get away with it because we can buy rebuilt units that have been saved from the scrap pile. the cost is within reach of a middle class corvette owner. what next? sample the refrigerant to be sure it is R 12? make sure the brake fluid is not silicon? real motor oil not synthetic?

[Ron N.]

Re: 67 battery judging question

Hi Chris, I remember well meeting you and your Dad in Frisco. The 7 point battery deduct on my Restoration battery bugged me so I was trying to find out if anyone had a solution. Despite the 7 point battery deduct I had a raw score of 96.3. Ops was perfect except for the fact that they could not judge the cold start kick down because the car was hot having just drove from Houston. It was waived in the previous 2 Regional but they would not waive it in Frisco. I still would not have made 97 even if they waived.

I've done some things since Frisco and by my calculation I'm around 98% but still try for improvement. My focus now is PV. Looking to find a a deal on 775 x 15 bias ply tires that I need for PV and add to the 98% for flight judging.

Let me know what you're working towards and if you're planning to attend upcoming Regional or National events.


Thanks to you and others that replied to my post.

[Chris E.]

Re: 67 battery judging question

Ron, thanks for the reply. I was working towards Duntov and achieved that at the National Convention in Hampton, VA this year. The car did really well (97.84%). Now I'm starting the Founders Award. I drove my car to a Chapter Meet last weekend and got another Top Flight. From here, I'll drive it to our Rochester, MN Regional in May of 2014, and then on the Road Tour to the KC Nationals in 2014. Should be a fun trip!

[Ron N.]

Re: 67 battery judging question

Chris, congratulation on Duntov and 97+%. Myself and 2 others have been planning to go to the KC National next year. We would drive from Houston. One with a 57 Top Flight Fuelie, another with a 63 split window and myself. If all goes well we may see you there.

If I'm able to get my instrument cluster back & installed in time I'll try for either PV or Flight 97+% at Frisco in October. I'm not overly interested in Duntov but want to try for PV and Bloomington Gold some time.