Flint or Tonawanda Engine Casting Year Oddity

[Richard M.]

If a 1960 3756519 block has a casting date of C160, I surmise that it was cast on March(C) 16(16), 1960(0), and that it was cast at the Saginaw plant and was sent to Flint for assembly. Block has the pipe plug at the front face of the block above the water pump. The pad was decked. I assume it's a Flint assembled block but not sure if from a Corvette or not.

Did all Flint blocks, whether for Corvette or Pass Cars/Trucks, get the little pipe plug?

What if the engine was cast in Tonawanda on March(C) 1(1), 1960(60). Other than the little pipe plug at the front face of the block above the water pump done at Flint, what other ways are there to differentiate a Saginaw cast vs Tonawanda cast block.

Rich

[Joe L.]

Re: Flint or Tonawanda Engine Casting Year Oddity

If a 1960 3756519 block has a casting date of C160, I surmise that it was cast on March(C) 16(16), 1960(0), and that it was cast at the Saginaw plant and was sent to Flint for assembly. Block has the pipe plug at the front face of the block above the water pump. The pad was decked. I assume it's a Flint assembled block but not sure if from a Corvette or not.

Did all Flint blocks, whether for Corvette or Pass Cars/Trucks, get the little pipe plug?

What if the engine was cast in Tonawanda on March(C) 1(1), 1960(60). Other than the little pipe plug at the front face of the block above the water pump done at Flint, what other ways are there to differentiate a Saginaw cast vs Tonawanda cast block.

Rich

Rich------


As far as I know, all Saginaw-cast, Flint machined blocks had the pipe plug you describe.

Tonawanda-cast blocks usually have a "T" prominently cast on them.

[Gary C.]

Re: Flint or Tonawanda Engine Casting Year Oddity

Rich,

The driver's side rear boss bellhousing mount at the back of the head is flush with the head surface and is machined smooth on Tonawanda blocks. On Flint blocks the boss is lower than the head surface and rough cast surface.

Dick Robinson shared this information with me several years ago.

Gary
....

[Richard M.]

Re: Flint or Tonawanda Engine Casting Year Oddity

Thanks guys........I just looked at several 519's on ebay.

After Joe's reference to the "T", I found a web reference that said the T is next to the casting #. Unless it's under the grease I don't see it.

Gary, do these pictures show the machined area you spoke of?

I do however see a difference in the font of the number one in the casting number, Tonawanda is a 90* flag and no base line , Flint is angled flag and has base line. If this matters?

edit....I see the cast date has extra space between the day and the year digit(s) on both blocks.

Here's a Tonawanda '59......








Here's a Flint '61.....

[Gary C.]

Re: Flint or Tonawanda Engine Casting Year Oddity

Rich,

Flint 61 block photo - the casting ridge to the left of 12 and above the bellhousing stud is the area that's rough cast on Flint blocks and on Tonawanda blocks that area is even with the head surface and milled.

Gary
....

[Terry M.]

Re: Flint or Tonawanda Engine Casting Year Oddity

Thanks guys........I just looked at several 519's on ebay.

After Joe's reference to the "T", I found a web reference that said the T is next to the casting #. Unless it's under the grease I don't see it.

I do however see a difference in the font of the number one in the casting number, Tonawanda is a 90* flag and no base line , Flint is angled flag and has base line. If this matters?

edit....I see the cast date has extra space between the day and the year digit(s) on both blocks.

Rich,

I think you would need a lot more samples before coming to a meaningful conclusion about the font or date cast spacing. There were literally dozens of molds for each part of the cylinder case at both engine casting locations, and Just as a guess I would think you would need at least a sampling of a hundred cases from each plant before you could begin to develop a scenario about the details you are specifying. And I would bet the date pattern could differ from day to day.

Some of the guys selling cylinder cases might have the research stock you would need, but what do you think the chances are they might let you look at their stock?

[Richard M.]

Re: Flint or Tonawanda Engine Casting Year Oddity

Gary,
It's hard to see on that greasy example I guess, but I now understand the area you're talking about. That's great info thanks. That's the only Tonawanda 519 I saw listed with decent pics. I'll keep my eyes open for more.

Terry,
Good points. I agree the variations on the little details of character fonts etc probably need many samples to verify.

As far as the letter "T" cast into the Tonawanda 519 block, where exactly is it supposed to be located? I thought it was near the casting number but I don't see it on my example above.

Thanks,
Rich

[Gary C.]

Re: Flint or Tonawanda Engine Casting Year Oddity

Rich,

It's not the geasy block photo, it's the nice clean '61 block. The raised cast ridge above the bellhousing stud and to the left of the 12.

Gary
....

[Richard M.]

Re: Flint or Tonawanda Engine Casting Year Oddity

Rich,

It's not the geasy block photo, it's the nice clean '61 block. The raised cast ridge above the bellhousing stud and to the left of the 12.

Gary
....

Yes I understand, but I was trying to see the machined area on the greasy Tonawanda block and could not.

[Terry M.]

Re: Flint or Tonawanda Engine Casting Year Oddity

As far as the letter "T" cast into the Tonawanda 519 block, where exactly is it supposed to be located? I thought it was near the casting number but I don't see it on my example above.

Thanks,
Rich

The specific casting number you are asking about is not in my knowledge base, however, I have seen the Tonawanda T in different places in other Tonawanda cast cylinder cases. I believe one would have to track the mold number (the large number 1 to the left of the GM in Rich M's photo for example) to be able to specify the location of the T. I think it appears in more than one location on some of the cylinder cases I am familiar with. I see it often under the timing cover, but that location is often times less than useful to us.

[Joe L.]

Re: Flint or Tonawanda Engine Casting Year Oddity

Gary,
It's hard to see on that greasy example I guess, but I now understand the area you're talking about. That's great info thanks. That's the only Tonawanda 519 I saw listed with decent pics. I'll keep my eyes open for more.

Terry,
Good points. I agree the variations on the little details of character fonts etc probably need many samples to verify.

As far as the letter "T" cast into the Tonawanda 519 block, where exactly is it supposed to be located? I thought it was near the casting number but I don't see it on my example above.

Thanks,
Rich

Rich-----


The "T" for Tonawanda can be located anywhere on the casting and sometimes it can be found in multiple locations. The latter results from the fact that a block casting was made up of several pattern elements and each may have had a foundry mark. While Tonawanda was usually pretty good about including their "T" foundry mark on castings, there may well be exceptions.

[Terry M.]

Re: Flint or Tonawanda Engine Casting Year Oddity

Joe,
I have seen some C3 Mark IV engines with no visible T as installed in the car, but of course there is a lot of cylinder case real eatate that can't be seen on an installed large motor.

[Richard M.]

Re: Flint or Tonawanda Engine Casting Year Oddity

Thanks guys...........I'll be on the lookout for those block machine marks and cast T's whenever I look at late 50's chevys from now on.

Rich

[Pat H.]

Re: Flint or Tonawanda Engine Casting Year Oddity

I've done a little research on the early small blocks, Flint vs Tonawanda, and have noticed a T under the fuel pump boss. I'm not sure if this is fact in every case.

[Richard M.]

Re: Flint or Tonawanda Engine Casting Year Oddity

I've done a little research on the early small blocks, Flint vs Tonawanda, and have noticed a T under the fuel pump boss. I'm not sure if this is fact in every case.

Thanks for the info Pat, I'll add that to another place to look for the "T".

Rich