63 Rear suspension finishes

[Michael H.]

Re: 63 Rear suspension finishes

Here's another interesting factory photo of a 63 on the assembly line at some point during the first half of the 63 model run. The differential housing is obviously completely coated in chassis black but most of the companion flange has been shielded/cupped during the process. The outer surface of the shield appears to have been coated but not the cast iron section. No doubt about the presence and amount of coating.

We still haven't heard from anyone that thinks the differential housing and half shafts were bare/naked/unpainted for 63-64. There must be someone that believes these items were natural if the new 6th edition of the JG was changed to state that is the case. What about the folks on the revision team? No opposing views?

[Michael G.]

Re: 63 Rear suspension finishes

Michael, I'm back home now and have the new 6th edition here.

In it, there are many references to specific finishes in the rear suspension section, but, absolutely no mention of rear suspension blackout.

It does refer to the strut rods as "forging black" but I'm guessing that is more of a flat black residue than the thick black paint sprayed at St. Louis.

[Alan D.]

Re: 63 Rear suspension finishes

Well home from Regionals and its bad news for blackout. Lost full 20% for Finish on every line on the Rear Suspension and similar for Steering linkage area.
Pictures were not being considered as evidence, so if you have time before National better do some removal work.
Good thing I installed production U Joints every where. Although the Chassis section on my car has all original production parts finish and age cost me dearly.

[Michael G.]

Re: 63 Rear suspension finishes

Alan, how many points did you lose on rear suspension finishes?

[Tony S.]

Re: 63 Rear suspension finishes

Here are a couple photos that I took at the Frisco Regional last Fall. The photos are of the original exhaust pipes and one of the two original mufflers taken off of a low mileage '64. They are unbelieveable examples of original exhaust blackout.

[Dick W.]

Re: 63 Rear suspension finishes

Here are a couple photos that I took at the Frisco Regional last Fall. The photos are of the original exhaust pipes and one of the two original mufflers taken off of a low mileage '64. They are unbelieveable examples of original exhaust blackout.

I saw those on the table. Very neat items, now if some people would remove their head............

[Michael H.]

Re: 63 Rear suspension finishes

Michael, I'm back home now and have the new 6th edition here.

In it, there are many references to specific finishes in the rear suspension section, but, absolutely no mention of rear suspension blackout.

It does refer to the strut rods as "forging black" but I'm guessing that is more of a flat black residue than the thick black paint sprayed at St. Louis.

Michael,

So, the JG doesn't specifically state that the differential and half shafts are supposed to be natural, un-coated? If not, where did this information come from?
If that's the case, then Alan shouldn't have gotten a deduction on these items.

[Gene M.]

Re: 63 Rear suspension finishes

Well, if this is true, it's a shame because now a lot of owners will have to do the same thing you are doing if they want to conform to the new 6th edition.

I have to wonder who submitted that incorrect information as a correction for the manual and where they get their information??

Mike,
It seems to me people that want their Corvette to be correct will restore it (63, 64) with the black out. But sadly most NCRS members will make their car match what ever the NCRS guide spells out. I try to explain the correct way to restore the c2's in the advance judging classes. And what experienced knowledgeable judges are looking for. But I also point out that there are some judges out that really know the correct way it was even if it does not agree with the published NCRS guides.

Sadly if the manual is wrong and someone restores to the manual, even though it is incorrect the judge must accept the incorrect car as presented and NOT make deductions. SAD but that's the way it is.

For a team leader to allow material in the judging manual to be changed from correct to wrong and blame it on the decision of the judging team is stupid. Why even buy a manual this bad?

[Alan D.]

Re: 63 Rear suspension finishes

For Originality each box is worth 5 points so 20% for Finish in each box that's a total of 7 (7 items)
That's right by the matrix standards

[Michael H.]

Re: 63 Rear suspension finishes

For Originality each box is worth 5 points so 20% for Finish in each box that's a total of 7 (7 items)
That's right by the matrix standards

Alan,

What does the JG specifically say about these items? Does it actually say that they are supposed to be plain, unpainted or does it not address this issue at all?

At this point, we don't even know if the issue is with the JG or the with judges.

If the JG doesn't mention the coating, or lack of, then the judges are deducting points because of a lack of knowledge. Or possibly because they would rather see shinny parts instead of a correct boring black coating.

Someone, somewhere is making up their own rules and that's not the way it works. We can't change history. The cars are what they are/were.

[Gene M.]

Re: 63 Rear suspension finishes

For Originality each box is worth 5 points so 20% for Finish in each box that's a total of 7 (7 items)
That's right by the matrix standards

You must have been listening to the advanced judges school at Marlborough. That is the exact number I suggest for each end (front, rear) suspension for surface finishes to cast and suspension component parts.

[Michael G.]

Re: 63 Rear suspension finishes

The JG says that the various pieces must be "natural". The 5th edition caveat allowing black on rear suspension items is gone. Interestingly, blackout is still allowed in "varying degrees of coverage" on the front suspension.

[Michael H.]

Re: 63 Rear suspension finishes

The JG says that the various pieces must be "natural". The 5th edition caveat allowing black on rear suspension items is gone. Interestingly, blackout is still allowed in "varying degrees of coverage" on the front suspension.

That's what I was afraid of. Thanks. Someone is trying to change history again.

Who's the best to contact about this? Roy? I'm surprised he hasn't seen or joined in on this thread.

Maybe this can be corrected before the big event?

[John H.]

Re: 63 Rear suspension finishes

That's what I was afraid of. Thanks. Someone is trying to change history again.

Who's the best to contact about this? Roy? I'm surprised he hasn't seen or joined in on this thread.

Maybe this can be corrected before the big event?

Michael -

It would be instructive if someone on the Revision Team could enlighten us as to the logic used to re-write history again, in spite of overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

[Kenneth S.]

Re: 63 Rear suspension finishes

Michael
In the 6^th edition section “Driveshaft & Half Shaft Assemblies” (page 148) it says: Original driveshaft and half shafts are natural finish extruded steel tubes welded to natural forged steel yokes and show no evidence of a patterned surface or a “turned in a lathe” appearance.” It goes on to describe how they are bolted. One other statement in this paragraph: “Original drive shafts have a stenciled part number.” There is no mention of blackout anywhere in the section.

I should point out that the 5^th edition (page145) has the exact same wording as the 6^th edition, so there is a misunderstanding about that once being correct.

The next section “Strut Rod Assembly” says: “The strut rods are forged and may vary in color from “forging black” to gray or blue-gray.”Again no mention of blackout. And, the 5^thedition says exactly the same thing.

Our Judging Guide sub-committee headed by Bob Young submitted the following for this section but it was obviously ignored by the full committee.

CHASSIS SECTION – Black-out Painting, Overview
Input:The entire rear suspension sub-assembly, including control arms, brake drums, backing plates, half shafts and spindle supports, with the exception of the unpainted spring, was sprayed as an inverted sub-assembly (prior to being assembled to the frame), with asphalt based “black-out”paint. Degrees of coverage varied from medium to heavy. The chassis blackout operation was done in the last station on the Chassis Line just before body drop. The chassis, now completely assembled including the engine and transmission, exhaust, tire tub and fuel tank, had a worker on each side spraying the remaining bare metal parts, generally on topside only. Coverage varied greatly - there was minimal blackout forward of the transmission, although the front stabilizer bar and linkage and coil springs would rear spring although none were specific targets for the paint coverage.

I have to say that it’s very frustrating to me that after all the work we put into documenting and correcting all the errors in the 5^thedition of the guide, less than half of them were actually implemented in the 6^thedition.
Ken