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65 fuelie oil leak

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  • John H.
    Beyond Control Poster
    • December 1, 1997
    • 16513

    #31
    Re: 65 fuelie oil leak

    Originally posted by John DeGregory (2855)
    Anyhow John I was right when I said you need a Melling M55 oil pump. Plain M55 with no suffix after the number. JD
    I'll add that as of yesterday, the Tech guys at Melling told me that they stopped using the GM-designed "weak" lightweight casting for the M-series pumps about two years ago that they used to warn not to use for performance applications; both the current M-series and "Select" pumps use the same durable casting now that we all grew up with.

    Comment

    • John S.
      Very Frequent User
      • May 4, 2008
      • 424

      #32
      Re: 65 fuelie oil leak

      I know anything is possible, but I do net believe the engine has been apart. .018 steel head gaskets still in place. That is why I am thinking it is a stuck relief valve. I am going to give it a couple hundred miles and see if it changes. Actually going to Cardiff by the sea event to observer judge. Thinking about driving the fuelie. 140 miles each way. I will see what happens the drive. If nothing changes I will drop the pan and check it out.

      On a side note, I replaced the old N11 mufflers with new ones and it sounds a ton better. Old mufflers had multiple holes in them. They were not original to the car as they were clamped at the back. Actually went quiet well. I believe the pipes to the back are original as they are flat in all the right places.
      John Seeley
      67 Black/Teal
      300 hp 3 speed coupe
      65 Maroon/Black
      35k mile Fuelie coupe

      Comment

      • Timothy B.
        Extremely Frequent Poster
        • April 30, 1983
        • 5186

        #33
        Re: 65 fuelie oil leak

        John,

        Keep in mind that removing a oil pan on a C2 corvette only requires removing the idler arm to frame bolts and lowering the drag link. After removing the oil filter, starter and rear bellhousing cover it's all oil pan bolts so correcting the oil pump issue is not a big deal. How many miles on the engine? IMO, I would look for a nice used or NOS GM oil pump and order the high pressure (60lb) relief spring and install.

        Comment

        • Joe C.
          Expired
          • August 31, 1999
          • 4598

          #34
          Re: 65 fuelie oil leak

          WHOA!!! Please hold-up on the oil pump replacement!

          First, since you have recently bought this car, you have no prior history base. You couldn't have noticed whether or not the oil pressure has increased suddenly??? Have you checked the pump pressure with a verified correct gauge? If not, then do so before you go after the pump!!!

          Oil pressure gauges are frequently re-faced (from 60 pounds to 80 pounds, and vice versa) without being correctly re-calibrated. It is highly unlikely that your pump pressure relief spring has become stuck, and even if that is the case, I seriously doubt that an old engine with an old worn-in pump and probably larger than spec journal clearances would be capable of generating 80 psi!

          Next, check the viscosity, and if you can't verify, then replace with CJ 10W-40..............although I doubt that in the event that 20W-50 was used, that 80 psi would be generated if the oil was fully warmed up to it's operating temp of 180-220 degrees.

          If you eventually have to replace an oil pump some day, then be advised that the M55 with the beefed-up neck is the way to go. The pump that you want to use was sold as a "Melling Select" at one time, although John H seems to have found that the situation has been corrected with the standard pump. There's no need to replace your pump unless trash was somehow picked up if the screen fell off. You should check the clearance between the gears and the cover plate. The cover plate and gear ends should be surface ground (easily done with wet-dry paper, a flat plate, and some WD-40 or similar) so that the end play is between .0015 and .0025. Install a new spring:



          Use the 55058, or the 55070 if you take your engine past 6000 RPM occasionally.

          Be advised that if you remove the idler arm from the frame you will have to reset the toe and steering wheel center. Better to use a pickling fork and separate the idler ball.

          Comment

          • Jerry G.
            Extremely Frequent Poster
            • April 1, 1985
            • 1022

            #35
            Re: 65 fuelie oil leak

            I agree with Joe, but this thread is getting a little goofy. oil pooling around the adaptor plate on front of the motor is the problem this thread started out to discuss. Has that source been found and corrected, if not then why would someone take it for a couple hundred mile drive or be thinking about dropping pans and changing oil pumps. Several good areas to investigate have been suggested, have these been resolved?

            Comment

            • John S.
              Very Frequent User
              • May 4, 2008
              • 424

              #36
              Re: 65 fuelie oil leak

              Jerry,

              I have checked just abou everything. Oil pump rod bolt is in place. Although old and hard, I do not believe any oil is coming from the base plate front seal. I checked the PVC system and it is clear with the proper size hole in the 90 degree fitting. Taped up the oil fill tube as the oil cap cork gasket seems to be original and is hard as a rock. Took car on a short drive and did not see any more leaking. I purchased a mechanical oil pressure gage and will be testing to double check the gage pressure Sunday. As for originality of the car I already stated that it is an original 65 fuelie with 35k original miles. Documentation includes the POP. The car has been in Jim Gessner's survey as an original low mile car for many years now. Yes I want to fix the oil leak, but I also want to track down the reason and fix the high oil pressure before any damage is done.
              John Seeley
              67 Black/Teal
              300 hp 3 speed coupe
              65 Maroon/Black
              35k mile Fuelie coupe

              Comment

              • Jerry G.
                Extremely Frequent Poster
                • April 1, 1985
                • 1022

                #37
                Re: 65 fuelie oil leak

                Did you check the main engine vent flame arrestor coming into the FI air meter adaptor. Be sure this is open and free or motor will build pressure in crankcase.

                Comment

                • John S.
                  Very Frequent User
                  • May 4, 2008
                  • 424

                  #38
                  Re: 65 fuelie oil leak

                  Jerry,

                  yes I did and it is fine. One question you may know the answer. Can I pick up the oil pressure with the shop gage off of the fitting at the front top pf the block. You can see the 1/8 plug in one of my pictures up above. Thanks for the help!
                  John Seeley
                  67 Black/Teal
                  300 hp 3 speed coupe
                  65 Maroon/Black
                  35k mile Fuelie coupe

                  Comment

                  • William C.
                    NCRS Past President
                    • May 31, 1975
                    • 6037

                    #39
                    Re: 65 fuelie oil leak

                    Yes, that will work.
                    Bill Clupper #618

                    Comment

                    • Joe C.
                      Expired
                      • August 31, 1999
                      • 4598

                      #40
                      Re: 65 fuelie oil leak

                      Originally posted by John Seeley (48993)
                      Jerry,

                      yes I did and it is fine. One question you may know the answer. Can I pick up the oil pressure with the shop gage off of the fitting at the front top pf the block. You can see the 1/8 plug in one of my pictures up above. Thanks for the help!
                      It will read pressure but probably won't be the same as the 1/8" NPT tap at the back of the block. Pressurized oil comes out of the pump, and up the back of the block where the rear tap reads full pump pressure before feeding main and tappet galleries. The front tap reads residual pressure after the main gallery, and possibly the tappet galleries have been fed.

                      Comment

                      • John S.
                        Very Frequent User
                        • May 4, 2008
                        • 424

                        #41
                        Re: 65 fuelie oil leak

                        Joe,

                        that was why I asked. We will see what the difference is.
                        John Seeley
                        67 Black/Teal
                        300 hp 3 speed coupe
                        65 Maroon/Black
                        35k mile Fuelie coupe

                        Comment

                        • John S.
                          Very Frequent User
                          • May 4, 2008
                          • 424

                          #42
                          Re: 65 fuelie oil leak

                          Update on leak issues. Cleaned up the whole engine compartment and ran the car around a bit. Main leaks on both side from the valve cover gaskets. Picture shows driver side valve cover with the gasket not even in place on the top rail. Bubba or previous owner had the gasket slide down on the when installing and did not catch it. Passenger side just had a leak at bottom left corner from age and over tightening.

                          One note that maybe John D. can comment on. I had to remove the air horn or meter assy to get the valve cover off. Is that the normal procedure?

                          On the oil pressure deal. I think the Rislone is starting to work. Hot oil pressure is now down to 40 at idle and just under 80 at speed. Previously it was 60 at idle and pegging over 80 at speed. I think I am going to give it a few hundred miles of driving to see if it drops more.

                          Going to adjust the valves per Duke W. and John H. procedure and put everything back together in the next day or two. Thanks to all for your help.
                          Attached Files
                          John Seeley
                          67 Black/Teal
                          300 hp 3 speed coupe
                          65 Maroon/Black
                          35k mile Fuelie coupe

                          Comment

                          • Dan H.
                            Extremely Frequent Poster
                            • July 31, 1977
                            • 1369

                            #43
                            Re: 65 fuelie oil leak

                            John, put the new gaskets on with contact cement to hold in place.
                            Dan
                            1964 Red FI Coupe, DUNTOV '09
                            Drove the 64 over 5000 miles to three Regionals and the San Jose National, one dust storm and 40 lbs of bugs!

                            Comment

                            • John S.
                              Very Frequent User
                              • May 4, 2008
                              • 424

                              #44
                              Re: 65 fuelie oil leak

                              Dan,

                              Already done!
                              John Seeley
                              67 Black/Teal
                              300 hp 3 speed coupe
                              65 Maroon/Black
                              35k mile Fuelie coupe

                              Comment

                              • Michael H.
                                Expired
                                • January 29, 2008
                                • 7477

                                #45
                                Re: 65 fuelie oil leak

                                Originally posted by John Seeley (48993)

                                One note that maybe John D. can comment on. I had to remove the air horn or meter assy to get the valve cover off. Is that the normal procedure?

                                On the oil pressure deal. I think the Rislone is starting to work. Hot oil pressure is now down to 40 at idle and just under 80 at speed. Previously it was 60 at idle and pegging over 80 at speed. I think I am going to give it a few hundred miles of driving to see if it drops more.

                                Going to adjust the valves per Duke W. and John H. procedure and put everything back together in the next day or two. Thanks to all for your help.
                                John,

                                The valve adjusting method recommended is spot on. I would definitely stick with the factory recommended lash specs of .030-.030" though.

                                You may find it easier/faster to remove the left valve cover if you only remove the FI choke cone and pizometer ring instead of removing the entire air meter.

                                Comment

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