Hard Starting when Hot
I bought a '67 327/300hp a few years ago and have slowly been "restoring" it over the past year or so. It runs fine, so I didin't feel the engine needed to be rebuilt, but I did replace the water pump and alternator (with correct model rebuilt ones) and the starter (since the one that was on it was some generic auto parts store brand) with a rebuilt model from Corvette Central. It still runs and starts fine, except when the engine gets hot. After running for about 20 minutes or so, it does not like to restart. It acts like the battery is almost dead and barely turns over. But once it cools down, it starts fine. Any suggestions?
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Re: Hard Starting when Hot
Terry,
Had that problem with 3 of my cars in the past 50 years. The starter gets warm and the resistance go's up.
I tried putting larger cables on and even put the car on the lift, instantly changing starters with another in the shop.
The cold starter in the shop started the hot engine instantly and it was a high torque starter just as the one that came off.
I drove the car and returned only to find the same problem. I was late going to be late going where I was going so I took the water hose and sprayed the starter cooling it and the car started just fine.
Somewhere the starter shield was not put back on the car. There were cars that shielded the starter from the exhaust manifolds.
Shielding the starter helped but didn't completely do the trick.
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Re: Hard Starting when Hot
Terry,
In the archives there is some info on the same problem. I remember reading something about the new GM solenoid may have a different spring for this problem, the part # is 1114458 but I am not 100% on this.
You could also try a starter shim, these are available in auto parts stores that may help.Comment
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Re: Hard Starting when Hot
I agree. In fact when I installed the new starter, I also installed a new heat shield, but since I still have this problem, wondered if maybe the exhaust pipes were too close to the started? I thought about trying a generic wrap-around heat shield. I know you can also buy these from Corvette Central. Joe suggested using a remote solenoid, actually never heard of that, but sounds promising.Comment
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Re: Hard Starting when Hot
Thanks! Never heard of one, but I'll check into it!Comment
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Re: Hard Starting when Hot
Not that I'm an electrical expert, but it sounds more like an electrical issue than a mechanical one... But anything's possible. Maybe I'll try the wrap around heat shield first.
But the Biggest question I still have is: If this is a "heat" problem with the starter, why doesn't it happen on every car? (especially since I'm already using the original type GM heat shield). Strange...Comment
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Re: Hard Starting when Hot
Terry,
I agree. The starters in these cars worked very well when they were new and for the next decade, or two. Nothing has changed. Your starter doesn't get any hotter now than it did when the car was brand new so you shouldn't have to re-engineer the system.
Find and correct the real problem. Could be the starter itself. This is not an uncommon problem with starters. Slow crank when hot is typical of an internal starter issue.Comment
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Re: Hard Starting when Hot
I had one that did the same thing on a newly rebuilt engine, and it was too much timing. Retard the timing a little bit and it would fire right up, but didn't run as good. I probably needed the distributor reworked. Never fixed it I sold the car instead.Comment
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Re: Hard Starting when Hot
Terry-----
I agree. That's how it SEEMS. I wondered about that myself once-upon-a-time. If there was some sort of fundamental, design problem, then every similar car ought to have the same problem. So, I "knocked myself out" trying to find the component that was causing my problem. I've reported on this extensively in previous posts which should be in the archives. Briefly, I tried replacing EVERYTHING in the system, some things more than once. None of this ever solved my problem. Finally, an automotive electrical expert that I have a lot of faith in told me to install a slave solenoid. I did so and I NEVER had the problem occur again. Not once. Even after shut down and 10 minute re-start in Death Valley in July.In Appreciation of John HinckleyComment
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Re: Hard Starting when Hot
What does a 'slave solenoid' do? Is it a remote unit? I have never heard of that (which means nothing!) Who sells them?
MikeComment
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Re: Hard Starting when Hot
Mike,
I think Joe is referring to a remotely mounted solenoid. Standard issue on Fords.
JoeComment
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Re: Hard Starting when Hot
Mike------
The hard starting when hot syndrome was once-upon-a-time explained to me as being caused by high electrical resistance induced by high heat conditions in the "S" (purple) wire to the on-starter solenoid. The fact that a remote (slave) solenoid completely and permanently solved my problem completely supports the aforementioned cause. The fact is that if the problem were rooted in anything else, the remote solenoid would have done absolutely nothing to correct it.
The remote solenoid simply is a device to ensure that full voltage is applied to the "S" terminal under all starting conditions. Kits are available which include the solenoid, wiring, and instructions. Installation is relatively simple.In Appreciation of John HinckleyComment
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Re: Hard Starting when Hot
The issue that you describe is common. It happens to old cars with old wiring that have high resistance, just as you describe.
That's not what causes slow cranking when hot though.
Old crusty wiring, or other high resistance items along the entire system can/will cause the starter to do absolutely nothing when hot. Not even a click of the solenoid. If the solenoid plunger and washer isn't pulled into the battery terminal and motor terminal, nothing at all happens. No connection to the motor.
The problem that Terry is having is completely different. The solenoid is functioning correctly and passing current from the battery terminal to the motor terminal but if there is an issue with the coil or field winding's, the motor won't be near as powerful.
When the solenoid washer contacts both the battery and motor terminals in the solenoid cover, the rest of the entire vehicle electrical system is out of the picture and has nothing to do with slow cranking. Current flows directly through the washer to the field terminal of the motor.
Slow crank is not uncommon in rebuilt starters if the field winding is not up to original specs.
I have a small block starter in my 66 425 HP 427 car (for the last 30 years) and I have never had any issues with cranking, even when well over normal engine temp.Comment
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