Paint & Body-How far did you go?

[Patrick N.]

I had a first meeting at my house this morning with one of the candidates for painting my car and have a few questions for y'all. Although I plan to have the car judged, I do want a better than factory paint job but not sure how far to go. Currently I plan to BC/CC and try to emulate dulled jambs and leave some orange peel in the clear below the body line to be buffed out later. Coverage will be better than factory and avoid runs. I plan to focus on matching the color an metallic particle size as close as possible (there is plenty of original over spray to try to match against on the car)

That is my current thinking, I've read a lot of the archive posts on the topic but I have a few questions:
1. once the body is prepped- is gel-coat the best way to protect the paint from any under-body contaminants surfacing later? Are there other methods?
2. have you blocked the "waves" out of your car?
3. Did you get deducts because of this? over restored... in your opinion was it a good / bad decision to block? Why?
4. What is the biggest mistake one could make when painting their Corvette (assuming I am going for better than factory)

Best,
Pat

[Gary C.]

Re: Paint & Body-How far did you go?

Pat,

Recommend sending Tom Ames an email or calling him. Tom is giving his paint seminar at the Judging Retreat this weekend.

Gary
....

[Patrick H.]

Re: Paint & Body-How far did you go?

1. Many use epoxy primer to seal and do just fine with it. I, personally, would not gelcoat unless you have a lot of repair areas that need it as a topcoat.

2. I would not block the car. You've just eliminated some of the originality of the Corvette body and it's irreversible.

3. Yes, you will get deductions for over restoration.

4. Blocking the body and making it straight.

If you're going to block it then why go through the trouble of making the paint appear factory in appearance?
I don't think you'll end up with a "have your cake and eat it too" if that's what you're trying for.

[Dick W.]

Re: Paint & Body-How far did you go?

I had a first meeting at my house this morning with one of the candidates for painting my car and have a few questions for y'all. Although I plan to have the car judged, I do want a better than factory paint job but not sure how far to go. Currently I plan to BC/CC and try to emulate dulled jambs and leave some orange peel in the clear below the body line to be buffed out later. Coverage will be better than factory and avoid runs. I plan to focus on matching the color an metallic particle size as close as possible (there is plenty of original over spray to try to match against on the car)

That is my current thinking, I've read a lot of the archive posts on the topic but I have a few questions:
1. once the body is prepped- is gel-coat the best way to protect the paint from any under-body contaminants surfacing later? Are there other methods?
2. have you blocked the "waves" out of your car?
3. Did you get deducts because of this? over restored... in your opinion was it a good / bad decision to block? Why?
4. What is the biggest mistake one could make when painting their Corvette (assuming I am going for better than factory)

Best,
Pat

1.Lot of members will only go with gel coat, I am in the epoxy primer camp. I looked at two cars we did, one in about 1986 and one about 1990, expoy primer, polyester primer surfacer, epoxy sealer, and top coat. The paint is holding up very well, looks like it was applied a few weeks ago.

2. If you gel coat or use polyester primers you almost have to block as both products are high build and require most of the substrates to be removed.

3. You will get deducts, but if you do the little things, hood ledge, door jambs, etc correctly, the deducts are minimalized.

4. Cutting corners, using cheap materials, mixing brands of products. If you pick one paint supplier for primer, primer/surfacer, paint, thinner etc, if you have a problem, you have someone to go back to. I have had good results consulting factory paint reps as to what they would recommend. If you chose to use primer from manufacturer A, thinner from B, and paint from C, if you have a problem, you might as well call Ghostbusters, because you would get the same amount of support.

[Bill W.]

Re: Paint & Body-How far did you go?

Why not use the correct lacquer .that way you dont need to worry about fooling the judges . what year and color is your car ?

[Michael J.]

Re: Paint & Body-How far did you go?

I would definitely go with lacquer if you are taking the time and spending so much money to do a thorough job. But, as I found out, lacquer will still get you the infamous "over-restored" deducts anyway.

[Brian K.]

Re: Paint & Body-How far did you go?

Just so all you lacquer fans know it's not the same as 60's lacquer and not as durable and in no way chemically the same, like a poor repop part. Also last weekend in Arizona PPG held a jobber meet and it looks like lacquer is going bye bye and phased out. Heck Basecoat/Clearcoat is old tech (PPG's DBU and enamel might also go their not sure yet), now water is taking its place. I wonder how in 10 years NCRS will be about judging paint.

[Patrick N.]

Re: Paint & Body-How far did you go?

Thanks guys- good comments on epoxy vs gel coat and blocking issues, I'll raise this with my painter next meeting. Gary- I will reach out to Tom as well- thanks for the lead!

Bill- my car is a LeMans Blue 68. I thought about lacquer but after some project soul-searching, I think I have centered on final paint that has a good shine and leans more towards car show than factory. Having said that, I do want to minimize point deduction (if possible) and achieve a color match and metallic flake that is as close to original as I we can get. As it will be judged, I am perfectly OK dulling the jambs, leaving a bit of un-buffed look under the body line. If there are points to be had on my paint direction, these are the areas I would try for.

I thought lacquer does not give a deep shine as compared to BC/CC? I don't have a particular reason for one vs other at this stage if they can give me the look I am gunning for.

Thanks for the advice- plenty to think over and discuss.

Pat

[Terry M.]

Re: Paint & Body-How far did you go?

Just so all you lacquer fans know it's not the same as 60's lacquer and not as durable and in no way chemically the same, like a poor repop part. Also last weekend in Arizona PPG held a jobber meet and it looks like lacquer is going bye bye and phased out. Heck Basecoat/Clearcoat is old tech (PPG's DBU and enamel might also go their not sure yet), now water is taking its place. I wonder how in 10 years NCRS will be about judging paint.

Brian,
Perhaps you have not heard the news: The NCRS standard is now that the paint has to appear like the original factory finish. That happened about a decade ago, but we do find we have a hard time getting the word out. Based on that standard it doesn't matter what paint is available, or what one chooses to use. If you can make water colors or Sharpie markers look like TFP, your car keeps all the points. I wish I had a scan of the NCRS paint matrix to add to this discussion, but that will have to wait until after the Dallas Judging Retreat, when I get back to work -- unless someone else wants to throw another log on the fire.

[Brian K.]

Re: Paint & Body-How far did you go?

Hi Terry I do know about and have the matrix chart and bet judging standards still will change in the future as the old guard leaves and fewer cars are done in lacquer because the availability of the old paint dying off. No flaming intended its just time moving on lacquer is a dead product just ask any jobber (paint store). I believe PPG is the last supplier of it and many jobbers are droping it due to lack of sales, also Dupont has been bought by the Carlyle group and who knows their future. The EPA now dictates the paint market and I'm sure 10 years from now people will have to paint their cars with waterborne products and NCRS will have to adjust. Its progress not always good, thats the stark reality of the times they are a changing. So when the day comes and you can't make the new product mimic years gone by tech then the rules will change. Hey this is no log and I see no fire just facing the future which isn't so bright for lacquer thanks to the EPA and lack of sales.

[Michael J.]

Re: Paint & Body-How far did you go?

I am not a "fan" of lacquer, just like the period look of it on my '67 and I would like to keep it as original "old school" as possible. It is soft, chips easily, it scuffs easily, requires lots of attention, picks up swirl mark by just looking at it, picks up dust and embeds easily too, so no, not the best there is. If it weren't a C2 Corvette, like some of my other cars, I would use the new super duper multi-stage polyurethane paints and colors, that look miles deep, are hard as a rock, and wear like iron, while easily polished to blind you just walking by.

[Chris S.]

Re: Paint & Body-How far did you go?

1. once the body is prepped- is gel-coat the best way to protect the paint from any under-body contaminants surfacing later? Are there other methods?
2. have you blocked the "waves" out of your car?
3. Did you get deducts because of this? over restored... in your opinion was it a good / bad decision to block? Why?
4. What is the biggest mistake one could make when painting their Corvette (assuming I am going for better than factory)

Best,
Pat

1. No reason to gel coat - the bodies were no gel coated from GM - today's 2k primers, surfacers, sealers - are more than up to the job - USE GOOD PRODUCTS
Gel coat is for boats.....
2. No - I left all the wave in
3. even if you dont block - you prob will get a deduct for over restored - hard not to - and it depends on the judge, the day, the event.......
4. Materials - USE GOOD MATERIALS - and take the time to do spray outs and get the color right -

[Patrick N.]

Re: Paint & Body-How far did you go?

Thanks Chris-
Another point to avoid gel coat. The interior has plenty of over-spray of the original Color so we plan to match to that as that is as close as we have to match to. I have a paint supplier that has helped us track down the small metallic flake per original size- was not as hard as I thought it would be to get the flake size.

Thanks Michael- ha- your comments are on point for what I'm trying to go for,I have not thought about maintenance and upkeep. So Lacquer may not be a good choice for my goals on this one.

[Dick W.]

Re: Paint & Body-How far did you go?

Just to add to the discussion, I have looked at some cars that have been painted with the waterborn products, absolutely fandamntastic appearance. Makes urethane look old school as far as depth and color rendition

[Michael W.]

Re: Paint & Body-How far did you go?

Hi Terry I do know about and have the matrix chart and bet judging standards still will change in the future as the old guard leaves and fewer cars are done in lacquer because the availability of the old paint dying off. No flaming intended its just time moving on lacquer is a dead product just ask any jobber (paint store). I believe PPG is the last supplier of it and many jobbers are droping it due to lack of sales, also Dupont has been bought by the Carlyle group and who knows their future. The EPA now dictates the paint market and I'm sure 10 years from now people will have to paint their cars with waterborne products and NCRS will have to adjust. Its progress not always good, thats the stark reality of the times they are a changing. So when the day comes and you can't make the new product mimic years gone by tech then the rules will change. Hey this is no log and I see no fire just facing the future which isn't so bright for lacquer thanks to the EPA and lack of sales.

Brian-

The 'adjustment' you mention was done about 10 years ago as Terry mentioned. From a judging perspective, there's no advantage in using it on today's restoration projects.