1965 fuelie without transistor ignition

[Jim P.]

HELLO, HERE IS A QUESTION THAT MIGHT STUMP YOU!

I HAVE A 1965 "FUELIE". (MY CAR WAS BUILT WITH NO TRANSISTOR IGNITION) THIS IS AN ALL ORIGINAL SURVIVOR WITH VERY FEW PARTS CHANGED SINCE NEW. THE CAR WAS BUILT ON FEB 23, 1965. THE ALTERNATOR IS DATED FEB. 5,1965. IT LOOKS LIKE IT HAS NEVER BEEN OFF THE CAR. THE PART NUMBER ON MY ALT. IS 1100693 AND IS A 37 AMP WITH A DEEP V PULLEY. THE O.D IS 2 -7/8" THE SPEC. BOOKS CALL FOR A 110696 ALT.

WHEN TRYING TO BUY THE CORRECT GM ALT. BELT FOR JUDGING, THE CATALOGS AND BOOKS CALL FOR A GM#3843162. THIS BELT DOES NOT FIT. IT IS TOO BIG. I BELIEVE THAT IT IS TOO BIG BECAUSE MOST FUELIES HAD 42 AMP,
3- 5/8" pulley which would require a bigger diameter 55" belt.

I WAS TOLD THAT THERE WAS NO NEED FOR THE ASSEMBLY LINE TO INSTALL A 42 AMP ALT ON MY CAR WITHOUT TRANSISTOR. SO IT GOT A DEEP " V " , 37 AMP UNIT.

THE ONLY BELT THAT WILL FIT ON MY ALT. AND ADJUST PROPERLY IS FOR A 1966-1967 427 W/AC. THAT IS A PROBLEM FOR JUDGING...

ANYONE HAVE KNOWLEDGE PLEASE. THANKS. JIM

[Duke W.]

Re: 1965 fuelie without transistor ignition

I can't help you with your specific application, but I can tell you that over the years, GM consolidated belt part numbers, and they may not fit properly. The aftermarket picked up on these and now the errors are in all the catalogs forever.

This bit me on my Cosworth Vega. I still had the original alternator belt and finally took it to a parts store that had a belt measuring tool and found a proper length replacement. The original was 3/8" and the catalog replacement was a longer 7/16". The alternator had to be moved to the extremely limit of adjustment for proper tension, causing it to impinge on the lower radiator hose. It cost me two before I figured it out.

Mechanical lifter small blocks have larger alternator pulleys to slow them down due to the higher idle and max revs speeds. The difference in output is usually just the field coil design.

Check the AMA specs to see if actual belt widths and lengths are listed. Then look at belt catalogs to see if you can find exact or very close matches, but keep in mind that there is more than one way to measure belt length, so be sure you are comparing apples to apples.

I have no idea if the repro parts vendors who sell GM stamped belts have the lengths correct, but I would verify by whatever means necessary before buying.

Duke

P. S. Posts are much easier to read if you use normal lower case and limit upper case to only where it is syntactically correct or for emphasis.

[Mike E.]

Re: 1965 fuelie without transistor ignition

Jim,

I'm new to NCRS so I'm no expert. I do have a '65 judging manual in front of me and it states that a 37 Amp alternator is fine for your car. However a car with a L-84 should have a 3-5/8" pulley with a 1/2" groove. It also states the pulley should have a thick back for additional clearance, I'm not sure what that means. The JM doesn't specify that a certain sized pulley has anything to do with the current rating of the alternator. The JM does show the only engines that have the smaller pulleys are the base 250 HP & 300 HP engines. Unless you know for a fact the alternator/pulley has never been changed then I would say it might be the wrong pulley. Correct date alternators are easy to find on Ebay most have pass car pulleys which I think are the smaller one.

I’m sure someone like Joe Lucia will know the correct answer for you.

I was at Bloomington this summer and I took a picture of an L-84's alternator so I will include that in this post. I'm not sure this will help because this is a 42 Amp unit with K66.











Mike

[Wayne M.]

Re: 1965 fuelie without transistor ignition

Jim -- out of the 771 '65 fuelies produced, only 304 had K66 transistor ignition (incl. 17 no radio cars) per Noland Adams' book.

Here's another shot of the 3_5/8" dia. pulley used on fuelies, and L76 (365hp) and L79 (350hp) cars without air conditioning [these three cases took the 37 amp '693' alt -- no need for the extra power].

The thick back is to off-set the pulley groove for alignment with the forward water pump and crank pulley groove.



m

[Mike E.]

Re: 1965 fuelie without transistor ignition

Jim -- out of the 771 '65 fuelies produced, only 304 had K66 transistor ignition (incl. 17 no radio cars) per Noland Adams' book.

Here's another shot of the 3_5/8" dia. pulley used on fuelies, and L76 (365hp) and L79 (350hp) cars without air conditioning [these three cases took the 37 amp '693' alt -- no need for the extra power].

The thick back is to off-set the pulley groove for alignment with the forward water pump and crank pulley groove.

Wayne,
Would I be correct if I said the reason for the larger pulley was because the L79, L76 & L84 were all higher revving engines?


Mike

[Wayne M.]

Re: 1965 fuelie without transistor ignition

Wayne,
Would I be correct if I said the reason for the larger pulley was because the L79, L76 & L84 were all higher revving engines ? ....

I would think you are correct (the L78 also has a 3_5/8" pulleys, and those were all K66).

But the air conditioned versions of the L76 and L79 had the smaller 3_3/8" alt. pulley, and even though they could rev the same as their non-C60 brothers, I suppose they need the faster turning alt. pulleys for the greater C60 electrical requirements, moreso for lower speed around-town driving; coupled with the A/C 55 or 60 amp-rated alternators (latter rating with T.I.).

[Joe L.]

Re: 1965 fuelie without transistor ignition

HELLO, HERE IS A QUESTION THAT MIGHT STUMP YOU!

I HAVE A 1965 "FUELIE". (MY CAR WAS BUILT WITH NO TRANSISTOR IGNITION) THIS IS AN ALL ORIGINAL SURVIVOR WITH VERY FEW PARTS CHANGED SINCE NEW. THE CAR WAS BUILT ON FEB 23, 1965. THE ALTERNATOR IS DATED FEB. 5,1965. IT LOOKS LIKE IT HAS NEVER BEEN OFF THE CAR. THE PART NUMBER ON MY ALT. IS 1100693 AND IS A 37 AMP WITH A DEEP V PULLEY. THE O.D IS 2 -7/8" THE SPEC. BOOKS CALL FOR A 110696 ALT.

WHEN TRYING TO BUY THE CORRECT GM ALT. BELT FOR JUDGING, THE CATALOGS AND BOOKS CALL FOR A GM#3843162. THIS BELT DOES NOT FIT. IT IS TOO BIG. I BELIEVE THAT IT IS TOO BIG BECAUSE MOST FUELIES HAD 42 AMP,
3- 5/8" pulley which would require a bigger diameter 55" belt.

I WAS TOLD THAT THERE WAS NO NEED FOR THE ASSEMBLY LINE TO INSTALL A 42 AMP ALT ON MY CAR WITHOUT TRANSISTOR. SO IT GOT A DEEP " V " , 37 AMP UNIT.

THE ONLY BELT THAT WILL FIT ON MY ALT. AND ADJUST PROPERLY IS FOR A 1966-1967 427 W/AC. THAT IS A PROBLEM FOR JUDGING...

ANYONE HAVE KNOWLEDGE PLEASE. THANKS. JIM

Jim-----


In most cases, the pulley used for the alternator is completely independent of whatever alternator is used. In some cases, the pulley was supplied as part of a particular alternator part number assembly. However, the latter situation does not apply in your case. So, regardless of what alternator was installed, the pulley that was originally installed should have been the same whether, or not, the car was equipped with K-66. That's not to say that what was supposed to have been installed actually was installed. Of course, if the latter situation occurred, the original belt installed would not have been the one that was supposed to have been installed, either. There's no way to know, at this point, what belt was originally installed since it's likely long-gone.

The chances are the car will not be judged as correct with the pulley that is now installed even if it is the one originally installed. This is because it's likely not typical of factory production. Of necessity, that has to be the standard that cars are judged on (unless an owner can document something to the contrary). I don't know how you would be able to do this, though.

Caution: even if you replace the current pulley with the correct one for your application, that's not an assurance that the 3843162 belt will fit. There are numerous cases in which the belt that GM says is correct and the belt which GM says was used in PRODUCTION is found not to fit.

[Jim P.]

Re: 1965 fuelie without transistor ignition

Thanks for the info and helpful photos Mike. Please tell me if these photos are of a none transistor car. I guess someone changed my pulley along the way and my fix is to get a new pulley with a 3-5/8 o.d and thicker spacer. I love NCRS!!! Jim

[Jim P.]

Re: 1965 fuelie without transistor ignition

Thanks Duke. very true! Jim

[Jim P.]

Re: 1965 fuelie without transistor ignition

Thanks Wayne, Your photo shows me what mine should look like. Jim

[Mike E.]

Re: 1965 fuelie without transistor ignition

Thanks for the info and helpful photos Mike. Please tell me if these photos are of a none transistor car. I guess someone changed my pulley along the way and my fix is to get a new pulley with a 3-5/8 o.d and thicker spacer. I love NCRS!!! Jim

Jim I can't say for sure that it had K66 TI but it did have a 42Amp Alternator. In the full resolution version zoomed and cropped you can read the number. It's nice having 18 Mega Pixels to work with. A sharper lense would be even better.




Mike

[Jim P.]

Re: 1965 fuelie without transistor ignition

Mike, more than likely it was a transistor car because of the 42 amp amp. Thanks again.