Oil recommendations to use in a 427? - NCRS Discussion Boards

Oil recommendations to use in a 427?

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  • Duke W.
    Beyond Control Poster
    • January 1, 1993
    • 15670

    #16
    Re: Oil recommendations to use in a 427?

    Originally posted by Ronald Fadell (55506)
    Duke, it says so right in the original owners manual: Every 60 days or 6k miles. It's confirmed in the Service Manual. I know...I had to check it 3x before I finally believed my eyes. Apparently, the L71 is prone to producing acidic oil during cold starts. It also calls for 10W-30 oil which is why I'm wondering if the 15W-40 viscosity oil would be OK.

    I have been using non CJ-4 oil, Castrol 10W-30, for the past year. I drive it weekly if weather permits. I could use some expert, experienced advice, particularly from other vintage solid-lifter engine owners.

    Ron
    Sorry, you're right. My '63 owner's manual also calls for oil changes every 60 days. Back in the day I changed it every three months, which was about 3K miles and changed the filter every other oil change.

    But things have changed since then. Base stock oils have much better oxidation resistance, and the additive packages are much better. That's why oil change intervals were extended as the years passed. By the mid-seventies GM was recommending 7500 miles or six months, whichever occurs first and new viscosity grades were added including 20W-50, which were okay for cold starts consistently above about 32F. (15W-40 is okay down to about 15F.)

    Add to the above that we usually don't drive these cars every day, so mileage accumulation is slow.

    For typical vintage car use where a few hundred to a few thousand miles are accumulated annually, and each trip results in engine operation for at least 20-30 minutes so the oil reaches normal operating temperature to boil off any crankcase condensation during warmup, I recommend annual oil/filter changes, and if the car is stored during winter, it should be done just prior to storage so fresh uncontaminated oil is in the engine over the winter.

    If mileage accumulation is only about 500 and the oil doesn't darken, I think it's okay to go two years.

    Acid formation is a function of the fuel's sulphur content, and modern fuels have less sulpher that decades ago, so acid formation is less of an issue, and CJ-4s have a higher Total Base Number than S-catergory oils, so they do a better job neutralizing any acid formation.

    One of the best things that you can do is avoid short trips, and if you store the car over the winter, inside, let it be. Don't start and "warm it up" in the garage every month. That will just add engine wear and increase the rate of exhaust system corrosion. If you have a chance during the winter to take it out for a 20-30 minute drive, that's okay.

    Duke

    Comment

    • Jeff P.
      Expired
      • October 21, 2011
      • 287

      #17
      Re: Oil recommendations to use in a 427?

      I think you can use any 10w-40 oil and just add the required amount ( 1 to 4 oz.) of ZDDP. Or use the Shell Roteela 15w-40 and change it annually or if you put 3000 miles on your car in a season, change your oil every 3000 miles. Stay away from oil additives like Z-Max. Maybe add a little automatic trans fluid to your oil.

      Comment

      • Duke W.
        Beyond Control Poster
        • January 1, 1993
        • 15670

        #18
        Re: Oil recommendations to use in a 427?

        Originally posted by Jeff Piekutowski (53984)
        Maybe add a little automatic trans fluid to your oil.
        Please explain. Don't hold back on all the technical details.

        Duke

        Comment

        • Michael J.
          Extremely Frequent Poster
          • January 27, 2009
          • 7122

          #19
          Re: Oil recommendations to use in a 427?

          Originally posted by Duke Williams (22045)
          Please explain. Don't hold back on all the technical details.

          Duke
          +1, I too am curious about that tip....
          Big Tanks In the High Mountains of New Mexico

          Comment

          • Ronald F.
            Expired
            • September 29, 2012
            • 135

            #20
            Re: Oil recommendations to use in a 427?

            What's the general feeling about Classic Car Motor Oil? Price seems pretty reasonable.

            www.classiccarmotoroil.com


            Vs. CJ-4 motor oil?
            Last edited by Ronald F.; October 6, 2013, 09:06 AM.

            Comment

            • Patrick H.
              Beyond Control Poster
              • December 1, 1989
              • 11643

              #21
              Re: Oil recommendations to use in a 427?

              Originally posted by Ronald Fadell (55506)
              What's the general feeling about Classic Car Motor Oil? Price seems pretty reasonable.

              www.classiccarmotoroil.com


              Vs. CJ-4 motor oil?
              Paying 3x the price of CJ-4 is reasonable?
              Not in my book.
              Even name brand CJ-4 is only $11.99 per gallon at AutoZone.

              Looks like relabeled bottles of oil with an inflated price.
              Vice-Chairman (West), Michigan Chapter NCRS
              71 "deer modified" coupe
              72 5-Star Bowtie / Duntov coupe. https://www.flickr.com/photos/124695...57649252735124
              2008 coupe
              Available stickers: Engine suffix code, exhaust tips & mufflers, shocks, AIR diverter valve broadcast code.

              Comment

              • Domenic T.
                Expired
                • January 29, 2010
                • 2452

                #22
                Re: Oil recommendations to use in a 427?

                Duke,
                In responce to what Jeff said about trans oil (ATF)... I've been told that since the 50's, and seen some strange things happen when 2 quarts were added in a 5 quart system.
                The old timers used it when the engine was tired and burning oil. I was told to do it on a old ford that had lifter noise and used oil. The owner said the noise went away but the oil turned black and needeed to be chainged again and seemed to use less oil.
                Now this is what I was told by the old pro's, ATF also loosens the deposits and cleans sludge. They said it cleaned the check valve and plunger in the lifters making them quiet.
                AGAIN, I am only saying what the old pro's said.
                I actually saw a difference in oil consumption and noise in a customer car so I wanted to know if it was only because they finally changed oil and gave the ATF all the credit.
                All I can say is that the transmission guys said that (even though ATF is a petrolium bassed oil) it used different O-rings and rubber and it would soften & swell the seals in a engine. Softer & swelled rear & front seals along with the valve seals would slow down oil consumption.
                My only experiance with the seal swelling theory was when I used a regular O-ring on the auto trans dipstick tube. 6 mos and it would leak again till I got the one for ATF.
                What I do like about ATF is that mixed ( I use jet fuel) it is a good penatrent. Another hard head here put every oil including Marvel, 3&1, engine, and many others on a tin and put a glass bowl over the tin and put it on his hangar roof for Months. The only one that wasn't gum was the ATF and it looked like it just came out of the can.
                So that was the only tech I saw, but it would be nice to reverse things and find out why or if.
                I have had rebuilt engines brought to the shop that sat for years and wouldn't turn over and found that the oil used in the ring lands was gummed up. I have stored many a car engine for years using ATF without a single problem.
                I have over 400 engined on display, many with rings that were preserved with ATF and after 30 + years still turn over. OK they are all small gas car, airplane, and boat engines and are in a glass cabinet in the living room. Almost every one was siezed by old oil as many date back to the 30's.
                I used other oils at first and found that the engine wouldn't turn over, about a year.
                Maybe there are things ATF does that we are not aware of. I for 1 would like to put a name on what & why it does what it does so well?
                I have used it on many things and found that it did a better job that the canned spray oils.

                DOM

                Comment

                • Jeffrey S.
                  Extremely Frequent Poster
                  • May 31, 1988
                  • 1882

                  #23
                  Re: Oil recommendations to use in a 427?

                  Listen to Duke- he knows what he is talking about! I just got off the phone with Shell technical support and was told that the level of ZDDP is 1200 PPM which hasn't change in years. Duke's article written in 2008 has the same numbers and it is still CJ-4. Let's just move on.
                  Jeff

                  Comment

                  • Duke W.
                    Beyond Control Poster
                    • January 1, 1993
                    • 15670

                    #24
                    Re: Oil recommendations to use in a 427?

                    The article referenced in post #2 is the 2010 revision, which was published in the St. Louis chapter newsletter although there have been no changes to C-category oils since 2007.

                    If the "Shell technical expert" you talked to said "ZDDP is 1200 ppm", then he is certainly no expert - probably just a 10-buck an hour "customer service" flunky.

                    Anyone who read the referenced article should understand that ZDDP is not measured in percent or ppm.

                    What is measured is phoshorous, which serves as a surrogate for the amount of ZDDP, and the API spec limitation for CJ-4 is 1000. The Zn concentration will usually be 100-150 ppm greater than the P concentration.

                    The next time you hear someone say "percent or ppm ZDDP" - and this includes about 99 percent of internet oil bloggers - you should know that they are full of sh... and don't understand the basics of engine oil formulation. If any "oil expert" doesn't understand this basic issue, then you should certainly question their credibility on the entire subject of engine oil formulation and performance.

                    Duke

                    Comment

                    • Jeff P.
                      Expired
                      • October 21, 2011
                      • 287

                      #25
                      Re: Oil recommendations to use in a 427?

                      427 engines should only use AMSOIL.

                      Comment

                      • John H.
                        Beyond Control Poster
                        • December 1, 1997
                        • 16513

                        #26
                        Re: Oil recommendations to use in a 427?

                        Originally posted by Jeff Piekutowski (53984)
                        427 engines should only use AMSOIL.
                        Huh?

                        Comment

                        • Dick W.
                          Former NCRS Director Region IV
                          • June 30, 1985
                          • 10483

                          #27
                          Re: Oil recommendations to use in a 427?

                          Originally posted by Jeff Piekutowski (53984)
                          427 engines should only use AMSOIL.
                          Rotella or equivalent works very well and has for many years in all my vehicles. No need to pay a high price for oil
                          Dick Whittington

                          Comment

                          • Harry L.
                            Very Frequent User
                            • December 22, 2008
                            • 370

                            #28
                            Re: Oil recommendations to use in a 427?

                            I have use C-J-4-15x40 for years. My car is in a garage which never gets colder than 45 degrees. This winter my car will be sitting in an outside garage where the temp could reach 0 degrees or so, Pa. Weather. I am putting in C-J-4-10x30 oil. This oil is hard to find, the only place that I can find it is at my local John Deere dealership.

                            Comment

                            • Dick W.
                              Former NCRS Director Region IV
                              • June 30, 1985
                              • 10483

                              #29
                              Re: Oil recommendations to use in a 427?

                              Originally posted by Harry Long (49801)
                              I have use C-J-4-15x40 for years. My car is in a garage which never gets colder than 45 degrees. This winter my car will be sitting in an outside garage where the temp could reach 0 degrees or so, Pa. Weather. I am putting in C-J-4-10x30 oil. This oil is hard to find, the only place that I can find it is at my local John Deere dealership.
                              With some of the new diesel engine oil specs that are being talked about, 10W-30 and even lighter weight oils should be readily available in the not too distant future
                              Last edited by Dick W.; October 8, 2013, 01:16 PM. Reason: Hit enter too soon
                              Dick Whittington

                              Comment

                              • Harry L.
                                Very Frequent User
                                • December 22, 2008
                                • 370

                                #30
                                Re: Oil recommendations to use in a 427?

                                Originally posted by Dick Whittington (8804)
                                With some of the new diesel engine oil specs that are being talked about, 10W-30 and even lighter weight oils should be readily available.
                                Dick, I look everywhere, but I can not find it with the C-J-4. Dutch

                                Comment

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