Question for John Hinckley

[Larry E.]

John:

Any update on Camaro.Org getting the Delivery Data from GM for the
Camaro's? Does it look hopeless? Sure would like to know where my 69 Z was delivered.

Larry

[Wayne M.]

Re: Question for John Hinckley

Larry -- I'd like to add a question for John H., if I may. There's a '69 Z28 with M22 on eBay and it shows a fancy Certificate of Authenticity from Jerry MacNeish. Is this the Camaro equivalent of (say) Al Grenning, or does Jerry already have some GM info ?

[Larry E.]

Re: Question for John Hinckley

Larry -- I'd like to add a question for John H., if I may. There's a '69 Z28 with M22 on eBay and it shows a fancy Certificate of Authenticity from Jerry MacNeish. Is this the Camaro equivalent of (say) Al Grenning, or does Jerry already have some GM info ?

Wayne: I can help answer this. Yes is the short answer. My 69 Z28 is also certified by Jerry MacNeish. For a fee he will come to see your car and go
over all the important numbers and will varify them against his huge database just like Al's. Don't believe he has any official ducumentation from GM but

has seen/recorded more 1st Gen. Camaro's then anyone I know. He also does early 2nd gen Camaro's which I plan to have done in the future.

Hope this helps--Larry

[Clem Z.]

Re: Question for John Hinckley

read all of this before you put too much faith in jerry ability to certify Z-28s. http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=207776 just to let you know i was the original owner of this Z-28

[Rob V.]

Re: Question for John Hinckley

Hi Clem--

I have more than a passing interest in '69 Z-28s, so I read the link that you provided; however, I failed to understand the point that you were making other than the "barn find" was formerly your car. Would you mind elaborating...

Thanks,
Rob Vanderhoeven

[John H.]

Re: Question for John Hinckley

John:

Any update on Camaro.Org getting the Delivery Data from GM for the
Camaro's? Does it look hopeless? Sure would like to know where my 69 Z was delivered.

Larry

Larry -

We (CRG) have no plans for obtaining 1st-Generation Camaro delivery data from GM; that would be a huge undertaking (if GM approved it), and our small volunteer group doesn't have access to the resources that would be required.

[John H.]

Re: Question for John Hinckley

Larry -- I'd like to add a question for John H., if I may. There's a '69 Z28 with M22 on eBay and it shows a fancy Certificate of Authenticity from Jerry MacNeish. Is this the Camaro equivalent of (say) Al Grenning, or does Jerry already have some GM info ?

Wayne -

Jerry is probably the best-known 1st-Generation Camaro authenticator/appraiser in the hobby; he has been doing it for decades, and has accumulated a huge mass of data over the years. Jerry is also a Core Member of our CRG group, with access to our private database of "numbers" for about 15,000 '67-'69 Camaros.

Not many folks who have had their early Z/28 authenticated by Jerry show the second page of the certification document, which lists the car's "shortcomings", issues, appraised valuation, and recommendations for what should be done with the car.

[Tom H.]

Re: Question for John Hinckley

I also read this. very interesting story. I believe Clem's point is he bought the car new. Ordered the car in a special color. The color was documented by the experts in question. The problem is the original color documented by the experts didn't match up with Clem's memory of the car. it's an interesting read if you haven't read the link in full. Read it. What a cool car. Clem. I'm with ya. It sure looks like it was EO to me. Glad the current owner thinks so too.

[Clem Z.]

Re: Question for John Hinckley

I also read this. very interesting story. I believe Clem's point is he bought the car new. Ordered the car in a special color. The color was documented by the experts in question. The problem is the original color documented by the experts didn't match up with Clem's memory of the car. it's an interesting read if you haven't read the link in full. Read it. What a cool car. Clem. I'm with ya. It sure looks like it was EO to me. Glad the current owner thinks so too.

jerry posted i did not know what color MY Z-28 was. the new owner did not find out about me till after the expert checked over the car and once i showed up with proof jerry still says i did not know what color the car was. unbelievable !!! he made a mistake and will not admit it.

[Rob V.]

Re: Question for John Hinckley

Tom Hendricks: Thank you so very much for your usual informed and considerate response to my question!

John Hinckley: I apologize as this is a Corvette forum, but could you provide me a link/email address to the CRG (or was that what I just read?).

Merry Christams to the both of you, as well as the rest of the NCRS members!

[John H.]

Re: Question for John Hinckley

John Hinckley: I apologize as this is a Corvette forum, but could you provide me a link/email address to the CRG (or was that what I just read?).

Merry Christams to the both of you, as well as the rest of the NCRS members!

Rob -

Our CRG (Camaro Research Group) website is www.camaros.org. We are the definitive source for '67-'69 Camaro restoration data and information, and the site includes a discussion forum.

[Rob V.]

Re: Question for John Hinckley

Thank you John! I look forward to viewing the website!

Best Regards, Rob

[Robert K.]

Re: Question for John Hinckley

I just spent the last 2 hours reading about Clems Z-28. I think that whole ordeal highlights a known shortcoming of our passion. In our zest for knowledge, accuracy and perfection we often plow under the annomalies that occurred in the mass production of our vehicles. In this case, what was likely a 1 of 2 ultra rare car was almost was lost for posterity. That would have been a horrible shame. I know both of my 62s have factory defects and would suffer on the judging field unless I was to conform. I've always chosen to be a non-comformest. They'll be no mistaking that purple Camaro. Neat car Clem! That's for ordering it!

[Larry E.]

Re: Question for John Hinckley

I just spent the last 2 hours reading about Clems Z-28. I think that whole ordeal highlights a known shortcoming of our passion. In our zest for knowledge, accuracy and perfection we often plow under the annomalies that occurred in the mass production of our vehicles. In this case, what was likely a 1 of 2 ultra rare car was almost was lost for posterity. That would have been a horrible shame. I know both of my 62s have factory defects and would suffer on the judging field unless I was to conform. I've always chosen to be a non-comformest. They'll be no mistaking that purple Camaro. Neat car Clem! That's for ordering it!

Robert:
You make some good points. NCRS is a great org.; the only thing I disagree with is their edict of: If annomalies occured the burden of proof goes to the owner.
I would like to reverse this and put the burden of proof to the judges to prove that it did not happen. JMHO Thanks-Larry

[Terry M.]

Re: Question for John Hinckley

Robert:
You make some good points. NCRS is a great org.; the only thing I disagree with is their edict of: If annomalies occured the burden of proof goes to the owner.
I would like to reverse this and put the burden of proof to the judges to prove that it did not happen. JMHO Thanks-Larry

I didn't go to law school, nor did I participate in a debate society -- but someplace along the line I heard that it is impossible to prove a negative, and I tend to believe that.