Help Please in buying my first vette

[Mark G.]

I am trying to purchase a 1967 327/350 convertible from a dealer in Indiana. I have been told that this is a numbers matching engine and transmission with only two prior owners. The first owning for about 25 years, and the second for about the same. A new paint job and top was done about 20 years ago, and I see an MSD spark ignition unit was installed (unless they came that way).

I have photos of the stamps and markings and will attach here, but wondered if someone could help me to determine if I am buying a fake, or non matching car.

Any help is greatly appreciated. This is my first vette, and I am 51 now. Always loved that car and finally can afford one (I think).

Thanks
Mark

[Mark G.]

More on Help me buying my first vette

I wanted to attach more pics.

It looks like on my pics which may not show up on yours that the stamp on the pad is 7110483 V0220HT


I know it is hard to read. Another reason I worried and also if it is a bit too low. As well as the other things.

thanks

[Harry S.]

Re: Help Please in buying my first vette

Mark, I would contact the chapter chairman of the closest NCRS chapter and see if there is anyone that could look at the car with you. You can also look in the Driveline for members that offer this service. What you would pay someone to help you could save you 10's of thousands in the long run.

Especially since this is your first purchase and it is a C2.

[Larry M.]

Re: Help Please in buying my first vette

Mark:

Harry S is "right on" with his remarks. You really need an experienced set of eyes when buying these cars. Although "matching numbers" is important to you, you also need to look at originality, frame condition, bird-cage condition, body and panel fit, correctness of smaller (but costly $$$$$) miscellaneous items, and also whether the car runs and tracks okay. Someone who knows these cars can spot many of the problems and save you money and grief down the road.

If you cannot find anyone to help, let me know and I will try to provide a few names from guys that do these inspections for hire and that you can trust. However, hopefully someone from the NCRS Indiana area will step up to help. I have done this same type courtesy inspection for others in the SE Louisiana area over the years.

Larry

EDIT: What city or part of Indiana is the car in?? This may help you get responses.

[Michael W.]

Re: Help Please in buying my first vette

The phrase 'matching numbers' gets applied to restamps as much as original engine cars since the numbers do indeed match. Beware. If you're paying a premium for an original engine car, have an experienced person inspect it on your behalf. Fakes can be very difficult to detect. No Corvette had an MSD ignition unit from the factory, many owners spend their days flipping through hot rod magazines looking for things to wast.... uhh spend their money on.

[Michael J.]

Re: Help Please in buying my first vette

All good advice and counsel here. Beware "matching numbers". Question to ask: "Is this the original engine and transmission that came with the car from the factory?" If it is, have them prove it beyond stamped numbers, as mentioned, many people are excellent at stamping numbers even the best NCRS judges may not catch. Documentation is very important, former owner history, receipts of work (like what type paint was used, etc.) and other things, like a tank sticker for a '67. Get help, these can be expensive cars. Good luck.

[Mark G.]

Re: Help Please in buying my first vette

Hey guys,

Here is a pic of the engine pad numbers after the paint was removed today per my request of the dealer. Thoughts?

vette engine stamp.jpg

[Bill H.]

Re: Help Please in buying my first vette

Hey guys,

Here is a pic of the engine pad numbers after the paint was removed today per my request of the dealer. Thoughts?

[ATTACH=CONFIG]43304[/ATTACH]

It's hard to make a judgement from a pic (unless it's a really bad restamp).
I've attached a pic of an origionsl stamp (mine), it does look similar, but that's all you can say about a picture.
BUT, you do have to get someone to look at the car, Mark.

[Mark G.]

Re: Help Please in buying my first vette

yep, thanks. I initially worried that the second number 2 in the second set of numbers was different, and the following numbers seemd to take a different slope if you will. But yours seem to do that also. In addition, Mr. Chuck Berge has been kind enough to look at this stamp and felt it looked ok. I agree looking at pics are not easy though. But it is comforting that some look like the car I am looking at, and Chuck felt it was original. Thanks again to all. I am really excited about eventually getting a car and maybe this one is it. I think that it still has all original interior judging by the seats and knobs, etc. The enginer looks ok, but as was pointed out the small stuff, I have no idea about. I dont know what a bird cage is, or small stuff is, but I am trying to learn.

[Michael J.]

Re: Help Please in buying my first vette

I agree the stamp looks OK, pictures are tough, but nothing obviously wrong in the pics, including broach marks. The good thing about small blocks is there is not that much incentive to create "restoration" engines and pass them off like there is with BBs. An inspection is necessary however for all the other things that can be in bad shape and cost a fortune to fix, especially if the car is selling for north of $40K.

[Mark G.]

Re: Help Please in buying my first vette

I agree the stamp looks OK, pictures are tough, but nothing obviously wrong in the pics, including broach marks. The good thing about small blocks is there is not that much incentive to create "restoration" engines and pass them off like there is with BBs. An inspection is necessary however for all the other things that can be in bad shape and cost a fortune to fix, especially if the car is selling for north of $40K.

Can you give me a feel for what these other things are? The engine was rebuilt two years ago, along with the tranny. I had an inspector (not a vette expert but a good mechanical inspector) take a good look at the car and drive it. His report was overall a nice driver car, tight, and solid. Small things like the horn didnt blow loud, the seats were worn, etc. were all he found.

[Mark G.]

Re: Help Please in buying my first vette

Oh, and by the way, I am paying 43K for the car if I go forward. They started at 53, then went to 48, then 45, then I got 43 as a final. A long time of negotiating. No paperwork from prior owner though. No builidsheet as I know, no protecto-plate, or anything else. The current owner has had the car foir more than 20 years, and states only one other owner. Who knows. Does it really matter as long as the VIN and the pad stamp and the tranny all show that the car is together, and it runs good, looks good? I stay lost in this a bit. Sorry guys, just a newbie.

[Michael J.]

Re: Help Please in buying my first vette

It would be good to have the entire undercarriage inspected for damage (collision) and rust damage, frame and floors. The suspension components should be looked at, and up under the dash and back deck should be inspected for long term leakage signs that can cause real issues with structural rust and corrosion damage, 'verts were notorious for that. And here is a link to the "birdcage" discussion on another forum:

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c1-a...bird-cage.html

[Michael J.]

Re: Help Please in buying my first vette

The price sounds right, as long as the car has no structural problems, good luck.

[Tom D.]

Re: Help Please in buying my first vette

Other things examples:
1. Feel behind the rocker moldings (or look for screws all along the bottom edge) for the original triangular metal "tabs" that secure the bottom of said moldings. The addition of sidepipes in the past would have included someone cutting these off. Restoration would involved welding them back on - to the bottom (metal rail) of the "bird cage".
2. Look inside the doors for indications of poor panel additions, and inside each fender lip for lumps of fiberglass repair, instead of the clear evidence of original bonding strips that align with the "styling line" on the body fenders (front to rear).
3. Look at the very rear of the frame rail, just in front of each rear wheel. You might see patched sections of the frame rail (under the door to rear wheel area) are prone to rust. But, something that looks like an added curved strip of metal (reinforcement) where the frame "kicks up" to go over the rear axles is normal.
4. Look at the very bottom of the rear differential, for numbers (the assembly date) and letters (for posi or not, and final drive ratio.)
5. You might be able to see the location of a "tank sticker" by peeling back the rubber around the gas filler (right side?) - Look with a light and mirror for the evidence of paper stuck on the top of the tank.