Headlights turn on but will not open
I am a recent owner of a 67 convertible. 2 weeks ago the headlights opened fine. Today I went to open and they wouldn't open. All I saw was the amp meter indicate a draw when I moved the switch. The draw stopped when the switch was released. What are the steps I should take to try and diagnose / fix this issue. Thanks..
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Re: Headlights turn on but will not open
You have run into a common issue with mid-year. This can be several different parts that fail. The headlights rotate on a ball, and many times these get dirty and stick. They get a lot of water inthis area when it rains and it comes in the gap between the headlight buckets and the nose. Next, the gears on the headlight motors get damaged. When opening and closing the headlighs, the motors continue to run until you release the switch. This is especially when one headlight bucket open or closed faster the other. This puts a lot of pressure on the gears and can damage these gears.
I also would ask, does both headllights not open, or is your condition on one headlight? If neither one is working, there may be some electrical issue. The switch to turn on the headlights is a complete different circuit from the switch that open/closes the headlight buckets.
I wrote an article that was publiched in the Summer 2012 Restorer on rebuilding the headlight buckets and the motors. I also have a link to our local NCRS Club where it is stores. Maybe the pictures will help you understand how it all works. If I get this all typed corrrectly:
The headlight buckets and motors take a lot of abuse. The location on the front of the car means they get a lot of moisture. I had to hea the balls with a torch to get them from the shafts in my car. So liekly you will need to restore them. -
Re: Headlights turn on but will not open
As a second thought, do you know there are some little wheels where you can manually open your headlights if necessary. This is on the end of the inboard side of the motors. It takes a lot of turning to open/close the door, but can gt you home if stranded out in the dark.Comment
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Re: Headlights turn on but will not open
Now if you find it's the small rocker switch on the dash then look at;
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Re: Headlights turn on but will not open
Mark make a quick check of the ground circuts. I know each motor has a ground and think the radiator support has a ground also. Connections will get rusty and cause problems.New England chapter member, 63 Convert. 327/340- Chapter/Regional/national Top Flight, 72 coupe- chapter and regional Top Flight.Comment
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Re: Headlights turn on but will not open
Mark,
I've had my 67 convertible since 68 and I have been through the headlight opening problem, a number of times. It is usually the gear in the motor getting bunged up with hardened lubrication, but it could also be other things like the bearings. But if it has never been touched upon, it is probably time, as things wear out. The article by Dale Maris is excellent on restoring the headlight bucket movement. Wish I had it years ago when I played around with mine and finally fixed my headlight bucket movement.
If you are doing this the first time, remember to remove the hood, it makes things so much easier for access.
It would be a very interesting project Mark, to do it yourself. You would have a lot of fun.
Dale, thanks for the excellent article. That's what this organization is all about.Jerry Fuccillo
1967 327/300 Convertible since 1968Comment
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Re: Headlights turn on but will not open
This repair and reinstallation is one of the most satisfying projects I've tackled on both of my C2's. You feel like you really accomplished something at minimal cost and there's not much better than opening that headlight door switch and they both roll right on over. Thank you Mr. Maris.Comment
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Re: Headlights turn on but will not open
The link Alan provided contained an article about repairing the open / close switch on the dash. Removing that switch, prying off the brown fiber back as shown in the article provides access to the 3 conductors. As I recall the center conductor is the hot lead. One of the others is the "up" circuit and the third is the "down" circuit. You can short from the center conductor to the others, one at a time, to see if the headlight buckets open. This is a test of the switch.
When I bought my '64 the buckets wouldn't open. The factory-original pivot balls were frozen to the shafts. Nothing I did allowed me to break them loose. I eventually replaced the shafts and balls. I also rebuilt the motors and when I got them open I found the lubricant had hardened to the consistency of a bar of soap. You will also likely find the teeth on the internal gears to be twisted due to the torque applied when the doors reach their stops. Since the doors rotate only ~90 degrees you can turn the armature and gear so that the good teeth on the opposite side mesh with the driven gear.
If the motors can't be rotated with the knobs on the motors I believe the problem is the balls on the shafts. If those balls are not frozen to the pivot shafts, the motors should be able to be rotated manually. Nothing new here. Just a confirmation of what has already been posted.
DougComment
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Re: Headlights turn on but will not open
Mark, since you see a draw on the ampmeter you have power at least to the switch, and probably to the motors. It is hard to believe that they were working fine two weeks ago and now are not working, but here's a little test. Have someone work the swtich (up) while you place firm upward pressure under the front of the buckets. If you can manually open them this way then your problem is in the motor or gears.
PaulComment
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Re: Headlights turn on but will not open
Paul, If the headlight buckets open with some help and you suggested, then do you feel if OK to chedk the motor gear and just replace it. If you are this far, should you clean and lub the headlight bucks rotating assembly?Comment
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Re: Headlights turn on but will not open
Dale will do, not sure who Mr. Maris? Must be my father. Thanks. I am doing a simular article on the C3 Vacuum headlights. They really have a lot of issues with using vacuum to operate headlight doors. Those vacuum line and diaphrams leak vacuum frrequently and its hard to quickly figured out which component is causing the leak. Hope to have it out next January. DaleComment
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Re: Headlights turn on but will not open
Hi Dale, my experience is that the motor is not strong enough to overcome the resistance in the gears, but I've only had this problem with a couple of cars. Cleaning the gears and rebuilding or replacing the motors fixed the problem in each case.
My experience with the rotating assemblies has been recent, because of my frame off. I was very surprised the first time I saw how much of a mess can gather in the shaft/ball/socket area. I still have never seen this prevent the bucket from turning. Although I think it may contribute to problems by adding more resistance.
However, you're probably more of an expert on this than me.
PaulComment
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Re: Headlights turn on but will not open
Paul, thanbks for your response. I don't have a lot of experiences on a lot of cars, only 3-4 in our club. I did the rebuild on my car and the ball on one side was frozen on the shaft so bad I had touse a torch and a hammer to get it free. My gears were also bad. I am always looking for more input and what happen on other cars. thanks again. DaleComment
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Re: Headlights turn on but will not open
This may help out!Comment
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Re: Headlights turn on but will not open
Alan, Thanks, great diagram. I will keep a copy. DaleComment
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