Turn Signal Failure

[Karl B.]

I am looking for some more diagnostic ideas.

The turn signals stopped working. Not illuminating are: dash signal lights, parking and tail light signals.

Still working are the break, parking, tail lights and horn.

The continuity of the turn signal switch checks out: White wire to the DG and Y wires, purple wire to the DG, Y, LBl, DBL wires. The parking and tail light bulbs test good. The flasher continuity test was good.

Power is available at the body connector. Purple and the White wire (from the stop switch).

I have plugged another turn signal switch into the body connector. The turn signals failed to work.

Any ideas to debug this are appriated

Thanks
Karl

[Monte M.]

Re: Turn Signal Failure

Karl,

Sometimes these things take eliminating a few things first.

Check continuity on the flasher back. Test to see if the flasher is even getting power when you turn the turn signal on at the switch. (steering column)

If you have power to the flasher, this means you problem is further down the line than that. If not.......

I have a few other ideas, but lets start with this step.

Monte

[Karl B.]

Re: Turn Signal Failure

Monte

I really appreciate the help.

The flasher has continuity across the two terminals.

Their is power to the flasher. But note: I tested the power with a test light, grounded to the body. When I used the multimeter on both sides of the connector there was no current.

I am assuming the problem is after the flasher,

Thanks for your assistance.

Karl

[Monte M.]

Re: Turn Signal Failure

Karl,

Your multimeter test worked out just fine. Plus it told us a few things. My guess is if you left the turn signal on while you testes the first side, you would get a complete circuit that way.

At this point, just a guess, is that there is a bad ground somewhere. Or, there is a long shot that there are no light bulbs in any of the sockets. Not likley.

Before we go any further, turn the ignition on, turn the turn signal on, take the multimeter and see if you have anything between the outside of the front turn signal and a ground you know is good.

On the outside of the front turn signal, it is held in place by the keeper that is oblong with a hole in the middle and a bolt on either end. Out of the center hole is the wire harness for that signal. The outside of that signal should be bare copper with no boot on it like a 63 has.

Make sure that surface is free of dirt and check from there to a good ground and let me know what you get.

Best of luck, Wiring problems a very difficult to figure out for the most part. One of the tougher things we mess with. Solving this over the internet is even a bigger challenge. So, hang in there with me and we will get this done. Even if it takes a bit.

Monte

[Karl B.]

Re: Turn Signal Failure

Monte

I very much appreciate your efforts on my behalf.

With the flasher connected, the key on, the purple wire from the flasher has power at the body connector to the turn signal switch.

The front parking lights have no power from the turn signal switch. They will illuminate when the light switch is turned on. So I think the parking light ground is ok. I also checked the continuity of the bulbs. Checking both terminals, the bulbs are ok.

I also did the same check for the tail lights with the same results. The car has brake lights. So the brake light wiring, which runs through the turn signal switch appears ok.

I hope this is a faulty ground. They maybe hard to find but they are better then the other alternatives.

I understand working through this on the net may be time consuming. The car won't be seeing much sun between now and April. Besides I enjoy working on it.

Many, many thanks.

Karl

[Monte M.]

Re: Turn Signal Failure

Karl,
Next, you need to see what is still connected. Are all four still together. First, remove the flasher from the car. Then,the easiest way to do the test is to put power to one of the hot wires. Just behind the front turn signal you can take the point of a test light, that has power put to the other end, and see if all of them light light up.

You can do this another way with the meter, but it is not as much fun, and this way is much quicker.

I have a little fuse that I put on the end of the test lamp, just in case it is a dead ground, but we already know that is not the case.
Personally, I think they are all going to light up. If so, great. This means you have a bad wire. That will be easy to find, I hope.

Monte

[Karl B.]

Re: Turn Signal Failure

Monte

I have done two tests.

1. Ran a test wire from the hot flasher connection to the turn signal body connector. I then connected power to each of the four wires running to the parking and tail lights.
All four illuminated.

2. I reconnected the flasher. Put a jumper between the hot pin in the body connector and the corresponding pin in turn signal connector. With the key on and test light grounded to be body, the turn signal sent power to the correct pins in the turn signal connector.

The flasher clicked once. When the flashers fail doesn't the dash indicator, parking and stop lights come on but not flash. The flasher has continuity between the poles. So I am confused about this.

Thank you very much

Karl

[Monte M.]

Re: Turn Signal Failure

Karl,

I am a little confused on some of the wording and what was actually done

On 2 is sounds like you put the flasher back in with a wire jumping between the two connectors. This is what I was going to have you do next without the flasher being involved.

I am trying to find a diagram of a flasher to see if they are "Normally open" or "Normally closed" I think they are normally closed. Put the jumper between the two flasher terminals, then turn the key on, then turn the turn signal on. Hopefully we get that side turn signals on and staying on. If this is the cast, turn the turn signal off. Let's hope it goes off.

Monte

[Monte M.]

Re: Turn Signal Failure

Karl,

If the wire was loose inside the turn signal switch, it would cause this

Re-thinking this, you have to remember that the flasher is really the beginning of the whole circuit. It them goes into the steering column and divides into two/three separate circuits. We know the whole circuit seems to be working. That is why I want you to put a jumper across the flasher.

[Monte M.]

Re: Turn Signal Failure

Karl,

After really thinking it over, it looks like time to drop the column. You are going to have to test to make sure the switch is even getting power. I will try to look it up in the diagram what to do. It is a light blue wire or a dark blue wire we are testing.

I will get back to you as soon as I figure out which wires to test where.

[Monte M.]

Re: Turn Signal Failure

Karl,

See if you can tell, but it looks like the hot side of the flasher is "BRN" or brown. The other side looks to be "Y" yellow. That yellow wire goes straight to the center connection of the switch that has three terminals in a row. The switch on the column has six terminals. There is one one one side, two in the middle, and three on the other side. Check and see if you have power to the center of the three terminal. The wire will be yellow. The other two terminals in that row will be light blue for the left side and dark blue for the right side.

If you have power to the yellow at the column, then jump it to one of the other two wires I mentioned. This is all there is. This will tell us exactly where we are. My guess is you switch is out. My guess is you might be able to fix it if it is the kind of thing you like to try.

I have fixed a few over the years.

Best of luck,

Monte

[Karl B.]

Re: Turn Signal Failure

Monte

Thanks for your help. I had gotten so frustrated with this, I had given up. Your thoughts and assistance have put a lot sanity back into my efforts with the car.

I am sorry that I confused you. But the good news, you are looking at this problem from a different angle then I have been and your seeing things I had not. Your interest has been really appreciated.

Based on your posts, I have done two things:

1. Jumped the flasher. Then jumped from the hot (purple) wire on the body connector to the purple wire on the turn signal switch. Turned the key on, operated the turn signal lever. The right and left turn signal wires (on the turn signal switch) tested correctly when the turn signal lever was moved up and down.

2. With the flasher still jumped, reconnected the body connector and the turn signal switch. Turned on the key. Operated the turn signal lever, up and down. The left and right turn signal lights(front and rear) illuminated.

The dash indicator lights did not illuminate.

To answer your query about replacing the turn signal switch. I have swapped out turn signal switches before, but not on this car. It is time consuming but not difficult. On this car I have connected another turn signal switch (new-but not installed) to the body connector. That did not change the problem.

Since jumping the flasher enabled the four corners to illuminate, I am going to run to the auto parts store for a flasher.

I would really like to know about your 63 basket case. I love a good basket case. If you have pictures you can share I would appreciate it.

Many, many thanks!!

Karl

[Monte M.]

Re: Turn Signal Failure

karl,

We are down to the nitty gritty. I need a very good explaination on exactly
where you are "reconnected the body connector and the turn signal switch."

If this mean from the hot side of the of the flasher, (pre flasher) , but
where is the other end.

After you do what you are involved in now, test from the after side
connection of the flasher to the hot in to the switch. Or, you can test
continuity from just after the flasher connection, to the wire , at the left
turn signal (hot" to see if you have continiuity. My guess is you will not.
It is very simple at this point. you are not getting power from the flasher
to the hot wire on the switch. Or there is a disconnect inside theswitch,
which you said you already checked.

I see your hot wires to the light as light blue and dark blue.

The purple is switched ground at your main light switch. You might try to
unplug your main light switch before trying any other tests. I do not think
it has anything to do with it, but at least it will be eliminated.

You have three or four wires on your turn signal. One violet is just a
jumper to make the other driving light work when the lights are on.
Left front:
1. (DBL) Dark blue = main blinking source. Tell the light to flash.
2. (B/W) Black with White line
3. (V) Violet Tells light to come on when lights are switched on.

So, this tells us all we care about is the dark blue on the left and light
blue on the right turn signal.

We are really down to one or two simple fixes at this point.

Again, hope this helps.

Monte

[Monte M.]

Re: Turn Signal Failure

Karl,
Again, the purple wire tells us nothing. If you do the same test you did before and use the light and dark blue wires, this will give us a result we can use. Purple are a completely different circuit than we are working on.

Something was off. I could not figure it out. Now the we BOTH have a clear understanding that the purple is the driving lights circuit, and the dark and light blue are the turn signal circuit, it will make it a lot easier.

It might just be that small fact that was tripping you up. My guess is you might just look at it in a different light and figure it out on your own in a flash. You are pretty smart and did a lot of good diagnostic work before I showed up.

Sometimes all it takes is looking at something from a different angle, and it all comes into light.. Let me know if this helps. I am sure we are very close. Hell you might have even figured it out by now.

Monte

[Karl B.]

Re: Turn Signal Failure

Monte

I think you nailed it!

I know now that I had not been reading the wiring diagram correctly. I had been struggling to find the power source for the turn signals. Which had sent me in the wrong direction more then once.

I also had outsmarted myself by relying only on the multimeter and test light. Using your jumper suggestions enabled me to actually see which circuits really worked versus just checking for continuity.

I did install a new flasher and as a result the directional signals started working correctly. The flasher wiring turned out to be the source of power for the directional signals. So when you use the turn signal lever, it completes the circuit, enabling the power to go through the flasher, the turn signal switch and then to the lights.

I sincerely appreciate your help, your patience and most of all your in depth knowledge.

Thanks

Karl