Verifying VIN numbers

[Barry L.]

1Z37J3S434028. The reason it has this title is because there was a VIN plate in the car with that VIN number. However, pulling the numbers off the engine block, trim plate and other components and knowing the physical & mechanical difference between a 1975 and 1973 car, the vehicle is a 1975. Yes I know the VIN is stamped on the top of the frame by the left rear tire. But I have cleaned that part of the frame and cannot find it. It appears someone may have sanded the area where the VIN is supposed to be located. I have not dropped the tank yet to see if the built sheet is still attached to the tank. The VIN numbers I am finding on the car, engine block, transmission, etc... is # 1Z67J5408061. The trim tag reads C12 which would be a built date of December 12 1974, Exterior Paint: 76, Interior trim: 652. the block is stamped V1202CHB. No, someone did not put a '75 motor in a '73 car. As I mentioned earlier I know the difference between a 1973 and 1975 model. The car has the urethane bumpers with front & rear bumper guards. The speedometer is in MPH & Kilometers, fuel gauge reads "UNLEADED FUEL ONLY", oil pressure goes up to 80lbs, water temp shows 100/200/280. The seat stitching is a '75 design, the rear bumper is one piece, but the letters CORVETTE are individually spaced. The front bumper is the same designed as the 1976-1979 front bumpers. 1973-1974 front bumpers are specific to those 2 years.
I ordered the shipping info from NCRS regarding the origination of the vehicle using the 1975 VIN # and it appears that according to GM shipping documents the car was originally sent to Hill Chevrolet in Huntsville, AL.
So this is what I am asking.
Does or can anyone have a good contact with Alabama law enforcement and research the 1975 VIN # and let know if there is any history of the car being in that state. I don't care if the car has a salvage title. I just want to know the history of existence. If there is any expense involved I will be glad to reimburse that individual.

The 1975 VIN # 1Z67J5S408061The 1973 VIN # 1Z37J3S434028I would appreciate any help from fellow Corvetters

[Tom D.]

Re: Verifying VIN numbers

My thoughts: The '75 you have was stolen, and the '73 was (or is) in a salvage yard with no number. Hope your investment is not significant.

[Anthony M.]

Re: Verifying VIN numbers

If you plan to part it out go ahead and do it. If you do research with Alabama DMV and find out the car is stolen it can be seized and lost forever. Sometimes ignorance pays off.

[Joe L.]

Re: Verifying VIN numbers

I really need some help verifying a car and its VIN #. Without getting into a lengthy dissertation, I'll try to provide the important information.
I purchased a 1975 from one of the major auto auctions in the country. The auction is Total Resources, which sells damaged/salvage vehicle from Insurance companies, etc... and is a dealer ONLY auction. It was sold as a parts car, I knew that when I purchased it and I plan to part it out. I have the correct paper from the auction, except the title is not correct. I know what you’re going to say, go back to the auction and get the correct title. That will not work. The auction received the car from the Navy Federal Credit Union, Merrifield, VA 22119-2302. It was a repossessed car. The NFCU supplied a Virginia title to the auction and advised that that is the correct title for the car. The title shows the VIN # as 1Z37J3S434028. The reason it has this title is because there was a VIN plate in the car with that VIN number. However, pulling the numbers off the engine block, trim plate and other components and knowing the physical & mechanical difference between a 1975 and 1973 car, the vehicle is a 1975. Yes I know the VIN is stamped on the top of the frame by the left rear tire. But I have cleaned that part of the frame and cannot find it. It appears someone may have sanded the area where the VIN is supposed to be located. I have not dropped the tank yet to see if the built sheet is still attached to the tank. The VIN numbers I am finding on the car, engine block, transmission, etc... is # 1Z67J5408061. The trim tag reads C12 which would be a built date of December 12 1974, Exterior Paint: 76, Interior trim: 652. the block is stamped V1202CHB. No, someone did not put a '75 motor in a '73 car. As I mentioned earlier I know the difference between a 1973 and 1975 model. The car has the urethane bumpers with front & rear bumper guards. The speedometer is in MPH & Kilometers, fuel gauge reads "UNLEADED FUEL ONLY", oil pressure goes up to 80lbs, water temp shows 100/200/280. The seat stitching is a '75 design, the rear bumper is one piece, but the letters CORVETTE are individually spaced. The front bumper is the same designed as the 1976-1979 front bumpers. 1973-1974 front bumpers are specific to those 2 years.
I ordered the shipping info from NCRS regarding the origination of the vehicle using the 1975 VIN # and it appears that according to GM shipping documents the car was originally sent to Hill Chevrolet in Huntsville, AL.
So this is what I am asking.
Does or can anyone have a good contact with Alabama law enforcement and research the 1975 VIN # and let know if there is any history of the car being in that state. I don't care if the car has a salvage title. I just want to know the history of existence. If there is any expense involved I will be glad to reimburse that individual.

The 1975 VIN # 1Z67J5S408061The 1973 VIN # 1Z37J3S434028I would appreciate any help from fellow Corvetters

Barry-----


I agree with Tom's assessment of the situation. As I've mentioned many times before on this board, this sort of thing is all too common in the world of Corvettes. In this case, the perpetrator was not even astute or concerned enough to at least transfer the VIN plate from an identical year model vehicle. That's usually how these sort of shenanigans get found out. Among other things you've noted here, the 1975 VIN applies to a CONVERTIBLE whereas the 1973 VIN is a COUPE.

There is usually another VIN derivative stamping on the frame. However, it cannot be seen with the body on the frame. It's on the upper surface of the left side frame rail approximately at the door location. Maybe when you part the car out, it will be revealed. I'm betting you'll find the 1975 VIN.

This situation reminds me of an incident I experienced several years ago. I was at the Good Guys Get-Together in Pleasanton, CA. I was looking at a Corvette and got to talking with a guy that owned a 1967. He didn't seem to know very much about Corvettes. He told me that the strange thing about his car was that the title showed it to be a 1965 but someone had "converted" it to a 1967. I told him that a change of the side louver panels was a common thing once-upon-a-time. He told me that it was more than just the side louvers and that I should come and look at the car which he had at the show. I followed him to it. Well, this car was an absolutely genuine 1967 in every respect, including the emergency brake system. However, it did have a 1965 VIN. I gave him the bad news.

In cases in which the perpetrator of the switch hasn't even gone to the bother of switching VINs from the same make, model, and year cars, the switch is fairly easy to detect, even without reference to frame numbers. Even still, this car as your car apparently survived for decades without detection. However, in the majority of cases, they are sophisticated enough to switch "like-for-like". For example, wreck your 1975 Corvette without insurance (or buy a wrecked 1975 Corvette), go out "shopping" and steal another similar 1975 Corvette and transfer the VIN plate from the wrecked car to the stolen car. Just like that you're "whole" again.

I'll repeat what I've said here many times before: when anyone is considering purchasing a Corvette, particularly a high dollar car, the frame VIN MUST be checked. No VIN present on the frame or a VIN different than the title and VIN plate= NO BUY THE CAR. PERIOD. In your case, this probably doesn't apply since you're going to part out the car and you probably didn't pay a lot for it. However, if the VIN stamped components of the 1975 are sold and anyone ever "runs" those numbers against a national database of stolen cars, trouble might ensue.

[Jim T.]

Re: Verifying VIN numbers

Tom I do not know all the detailed information concerning Alabama and their car title history. I have heard something years ago about Alabama not requiring something in putting license plates on a car. I believe this has all changed now. Someone with more knowledge about Alabama's car title history will have more information.

[Barry L.]

Re: Verifying VIN numbers

Well what is odd, is that the Orange County Sheriff Department inspected the car, with the Florida State DMV rep, while the vehicle was still at the auction. They ran VIN numbers and found nothing on either VIN. I am sure they ran the VINs through the National Data Base. I have a copy of the report from the Sheriffs' office verifying their findings. The paper work is signed and noterized by a Orange County Sheriff Deputy with the Vehicle Crime Unit. The document states there is no VIN is associated with this car.

The only reason I mention Alabama, is because the VIN # I submitted to NCRS to verify a shipping destination shows the vehicle was shipped to a dealer in Alabama.

That is why I ask if anyone has a connection with any type of Law Enforcement, if they could do some research and see if there is any historical trail.

BTW I mistake. The 3rd digit is a 3 not a 6. It is a coupe. 1Z37J5S408061
Appreciate any help.
Thanks for responsing everyone.

[Patrick B.]

Re: Verifying VIN numbers

The DMV had no trouble with the VIN because the 73 VIN was not of a stolen car but the 75 VIN is extremely likely to be of a stolen car. You should ask the auction company for your money back because the car is not a 73 and it has a phoney VIN. If they won't cooperate, getting the Alabama police involved will only cause you trouble. They will take the car and then you will have to sue the auction company.

[Joe L.]

Re: Verifying VIN numbers

Well what is odd, is that the Orange County Sheriff Department inspected the car, with the Florida State DMV rep, while the vehicle was still at the auction. They ran VIN numbers and found nothing on either VIN. I am sure they ran the VINs through the National Data Base. I have a copy of the report from the Sheriffs' office verifying their findings. The paper work is signed and noterized by a Orange County Sheriff Deputy with the Vehicle Crime Unit. The document states there is no VIN is associated with this car.

The only reason I mention Alabama, is because the VIN # I submitted to NCRS to verify a shipping destination shows the vehicle was shipped to a dealer in Alabama.

That is why I ask if anyone has a connection with any type of Law Enforcement, if they could do some research and see if there is any historical trail.

BTW I mistake. The 3rd digit is a 3 not a 6. It is a coupe. 1Z37J5S408061
Appreciate any help.
Thanks for responsing everyone.

Barry-----


Unfortunately, not all stolen vehicle information is in the national databases. Also, I believe there exists more than one database. The system is not as co-ordinated as it should be.

In this case, I would say it's a virtual certainty that the 1975 is a stolen car. There's simply no way that this kind of "mistake" could have originated at St. Louis.

[Paul D.]

Re: Verifying VIN numbers

Barry, I would suggest you stop looking for trouble as you are sure to eventually find it in this situation. If you have documentation that both VIN # were checked by law enforcement in the state you puchased the car at an auction, you have done your due diligence. Save all your documentation and part the car out as you had intended. I guess your only other course of action would be to sue the auction house for your money back. I can't imagine that the auction house would allow the case to get to court if they infact sold it based on a incorrect VIN #. Seems that would be a can of worms they wouldn't want to open either. Chip.

[Ronald L.]

Re: Verifying VIN numbers

Why are you so after the history if you are parting it out, simply sounds like there is more here?

[Barry L.]

Re: Verifying VIN numbers

Being a collector and the type of person I am, I like to have historical documentation of my automobiles or at lease know their past. I would not file a law suit against the auction. 1 My family has been doing business with the company, which is owned by Cox Broad Casting, since the mid 60s. We are one of their oldest clients with our dealer number being only 2 digits out of thousands of dealers. 2 I want to continue doing business with them because, like dealers all over the country that is where we purchase the majority of our inventory. In the past if I ever had a problem it was taken care of immediately. Also I am married to a Cox. I believe the auction made every effort to make sure the paper work was correct. They had law enforcement and the DMV inspect car. And I am familiar the details regarding stolen vehicles and the SO Crime Unit will confiscate the automobile. The SO complex is located next to our business and we service their squad cars, marked & unmarked. IF the car is stolen, I don't think there would be an issue with the auction refunding my money. The car could have been an abandon, could have had a mechanics lien, etc... I was hoping someone recognized the VIN and had some information on it. It had to be a nice car at one time, because it is red with saddle interior, automatic, P/W, T/T Steering column, A/C, Stereo, leather, etc... I know '75 was the lowest HP rating of only 165hp, but it was a nice car in its day.

I wish I would have gotten some response like this on my LT1. I have a 1970 LT1 with the last 6 of the VIN being 00006. The car was built in October of 1969, even thought the '70 model year did not start until January of 1970 because of the strike. I have offered rewards for ANY information that anyone would have regarding that car. It is a COPO. It was never shipped to a dealer. Chevrolet documentation verifies the dealer zone as 0 and dealer shipping address as Chevrolet Motor Division, Detroit, MI. I recently received information from Karl Ludvigsen, who resides in England with his wife and dog, a copy of CORVETTE NEWS magazine, issue FEB/MAR 1970, who wrote a 5 page article regarding the 1st LT1, with his autograph, a letter from him signed AND copies of his notes that he wrote while testing the car in Cadillac Michigan. I have been talking to Karl for about 2 years on this car and he dug up out of his personal files the old notes for the article and made copies and sent them to me. Karl gave me some really interesting facts about the LT1 that no one would every know except the styling center & Karl himself.

I still will pay for any information to anyone that has austenitic information about the LT1 that reside in the Schoolcraft/Kalamazoo, Michigan area. If anyone has any response from that area please let me know. I am just like the rest of the Corvette buffs out there trying to verify it paper trail and document its history.

I know Rogers ZL1 is a real asset to Corvette History, but I also believe that this LT1 is a big asset to Corvette history as well. The LT1 was actually built for street racing and to compete with the Mopars, Mustangs and all the other muscle cars of that era. BTW I've known Roger since my early teens.

If anyone has any information, let me know. Christmas is coming.

[Wayne W.]

Re: Verifying VIN numbers

I seriously doubt you will have any luck with Alabama. They were not a title state, and there probably have been more titles laundered there than any other state in the union.

[Barry L.]

Re: Verifying VIN numbers

Any one have a response on the LT1 thread?

[Barry L.]

Re: Verifying VIN numbers

Anybody have a comment/info on my LT1 search? I would appreciate ANY help.

[Edward M.]

Re: Verifying VIN numbers

OK, first, I live in Huntsville.

Alabama does not title cars older than 35 years. A few years ago only 75 and newer cars were titled, so this car would have been titled in Alabama, assuming it was sold to an Alabama resident.

Huntsville is 20 minutes from Tennessee.

Probabably more important, many states have cracked down on LEOs doing "research" for friends. Alabama is definitely one of them. A request like this would almost certainly generate an official inquiry as to why the question is being asked.

The 1973 VIN shows up in NMVTIS. I did not purchase the record. The 1975 VIN does not show up in NMVTIS, which doesn't mean much, since reporting of transactions involving VINs only became mandatory in January of 2010 for all states.

Hill Chevrolet was sold and became Royal Chevrolet in the 1970s.

My suspicion is that this will not turn out good.