Correct Reproduction Oil Pan for '69 BB?

[Joe L.]

Re: Correct Reproduction Oil Pan for '69 BB?

Thanks Joe. What throws me off is that the instructions and your earlier comment say the upper oil baffle (aka, windage tray) is only used 1965-69.

This is one of those "might as well" projects. This started as replacing a leaking rear main oil seal. Since they are being removed to do this, I "might as well" replace the beat up oil pan, and "might as well" rebuild the starter. So that's why I need to R/R the upper oil baffle.

Have you ever had a "might as well" project get out of hand? I also need to install the missing tunnel insulation that's under the floor hump. Since I'm removing the exhaust and transmission, I "might as well" install new seals/bearings/synchros in the M20, replace the clutch and u-joints, install a correct exhaust, detail the underside area, ...

Mark-------


Either I misstated or you misinterpreted. All 1965-74 Corvette big blocks used an external baffle ("windage tray"). However, the 65-69 baffle was different than the 70-74. When the 14091356 or any 1970-74 oil pan is used on a 65-69 big block, the 70-74 baffle needs to be used.

[Mark E.]

Re: Correct Reproduction Oil Pan for '69 BB?

Ok. To clarify, you're saying there are two styles of external oil baffles used in big blocks- one for 65-69 (396, 427) and another for 70-74 (454). And when using 14091356, the 70-74 baffle- which is part of this kit- should be used on all years.

[Joe L.]

Re: Correct Reproduction Oil Pan for '69 BB?

Ok. To clarify, you're saying there are two styles of external oil baffles used in big blocks- one for 65-69 (396, 427) and another for 70-74 (454). And when using 14091356, the 70-74 baffle- which is part of this kit- should be used on all years.

Mark------


Yup, that's what I'm saying. The 1965-69 baffles were GM #3873878 and 3964275. These baffles were replaced for SERVICE by the 1970-74 baffle, GM #3967854. And, when the GM #14091356 is installed on any 65-69, the 3967854 should also be installed. That's why it's supplied with the pan. The 3967854 included with the pan can also be installed on 1970-74 big blocks but it's not necessary because that's the baffle already installed.

[Mark E.]

Re: Correct Reproduction Oil Pan for '69 BB?

Thanks Joe.

Who knew we could chat so much about oil pans. My wife is beginning to worry.

[Mark E.]

Re: Correct Reproduction Oil Pan for '69 BB?

Originally Posted by Mark Edmondson (22468)
... This started as replacing a leaking rear main oil seal. Since they are being removed to do this, I "might as well" replace the beat up oil pan, and "might as well" rebuild the starter."

A quick note to say that thanks to the advice on the forum, this project is successfully completed! Some highlights/ lessons learned:

- Leaky rear main seal was replaced. After about fours hours of running, not a single drop of oil leaking!

- Beat up old oil pan replaced using oil pan kit PN 14091356. It was a perfect fit and match to the original pan (thank you Joe Lucia for your guidance about using this kit.). The only surprise is that the original upper external oil baffle (aka "windage tray") had to be pried off the main bearing bolt studs, damaging it. Luckily, the oil pan kit includes a new one, which fit perfectly. A bargain at about $120

- 14091356 does NOT include the corner oil pan reinforcements that are welded on the original pan. These four small, stamped pieces of metal are $24 plus shipping from the Corvette parts houses. A surprise cost.

- I used a Felpro OS30061T oil pan gasket (about $40, a bit more than the OEM style gasket). It's one piece, made from rubber with a steel core and includes four plastic clips that holds it to the block while you're on your back installing the pan. The good news: easy installation; one piece which means no corner seams; thicker than OEM which is forgiving of pan flange imperfections. The bad news: It's so thick, I had to use longer bolts for the corners (where the corner reinforcements are used)- not good if you want to use the original bolts. Verdict: Easy install; no leaks!

- I added a copper oil pump gasket even though one wasn't removed.

I was surprised how easy the project is! Overall, it didn't take much more time than changing spark plugs. Because the pan sits behind the frame in these cars, all that's needed to remove it is to lower the idler arm, and remove the starter... the engine stays in place. It's been posted before, but remember to follow the RMS remove/install procedure in the service manual closely, especially the instructions showing where to use sealant on the rear main. When I removed my rear main, no old sealant was present which may explain why it leaked in the first place.

So if the rear main seal or oil pan leaks in your C2/C3, or if your oil pan is looking beat, know that this repair is easier than you may think!

[Joe L.]

Re: Correct Reproduction Oil Pan for '69 BB?

Originally Posted by Mark Edmondson (22468)
... This started as replacing a leaking rear main oil seal. Since they are being removed to do this, I "might as well" replace the beat up oil pan, and "might as well" rebuild the starter."

A quick note to say that thanks to the advice on the forum, this project is successfully completed! Some highlights/ lessons learned:

- Leaky rear main seal was replaced. After about fours hours of running, not a single drop of oil leaking!

- Beat up old oil pan replaced using oil pan kit PN 14091356. It was a perfect fit and match to the original pan (thank you Joe Lucia for your guidance about using this kit.). The only surprise is that the original upper external oil baffle (aka "windage tray") had to be pried off the main bearing bolt studs, damaging it. Luckily, the oil pan kit includes a new one, which fit perfectly. A bargain at about $120

- 14091356 does NOT include the corner oil pan reinforcements that are welded on the original pan. These four small, stamped pieces of metal are $24 plus shipping from the Corvette parts houses. A surprise cost.

- I used a Felpro OS30061T oil pan gasket (about $40, a bit more than the OEM style gasket). It's one piece, made from rubber with a steel core and includes four plastic clips that holds it to the block while you're on your back installing the pan. The good news: easy installation; one piece which means no corner seams; thicker than OEM which is forgiving of pan flange imperfections. The bad news: It's so thick, I had to use longer bolts for the corners (where the corner reinforcements are used)- not good if you want to use the original bolts. Verdict: Easy install; no leaks!

- I added a copper oil pump gasket even though one wasn't removed.

I was surprised how easy the project is! Overall, it didn't take much more time than changing spark plugs. Because the pan sits behind the frame in these cars, all that's needed to remove it is to lower the idler arm, and remove the starter... the engine stays in place. It's been posted before, but remember to follow the RMS remove/install procedure in the service manual closely, especially the instructions showing where to use sealant on the rear main. When I removed my rear main, no old sealant was present which may explain why it leaked in the first place.

So if the rear main seal or oil pan leaks in your C2/C3, or if your oil pan is looking beat, know that this repair is easier than you may think!

Mark------


Yes, the GM #14091356 does not include the corner reinforcements. Neither did the immediate predecessor oil pan which was used in PRODUCTION for most 454's. The reinforcements are not absolutely necessary and were never available separately in SERVICE from GM. They can be used for "originality" purposes. However, the one piece oil pan gasket is not original, either, and is quite detectable. So, it depends what's most important to you------leak free or original? I like leak free better.

And, yes, longer oil pan bolts are required with the one piece gasket. I'm surprised that you didn't have to replace ALL the bolts, not just the corner ones. I hope that you have sufficient thread engagement on the original bolts you used. As far as original bolts go, it's the same thing again------what's more important to you; leak-free or original? You can obtain longer bolts of the original head configuration but possibly without original headmarking.

[Mark E.]

Re: Correct Reproduction Oil Pan for '69 BB?

Thanks Joe. I'll double check the thread engagement of the original bolts.

Thinking back, this may be the first Chevy V8 I've had that doesn't leak. Right now, even the PS system isn't leaking! It's nice to have a clean and dry undercarriage. We'll see how long that lasts...