survivor car versus restoration path

[Anthony S.]

Members....What are some guidelines to distinguish a survivor car (that should be left alone) versus a car that needs a restoration?? Thanks Tony

[Michael D.]

Re: survivor car versus restoration path

https://www.ncrs.org/awards.html

[Chris E.]

Re: survivor car versus restoration path

Anthony,

If you are asking about the CRITERIA for the awards, the link Michael provided should help. If you are wondering what you should DO with your car, we need some more info. What car are we talking about?

In my mind, it depends on a blend of two things. What you want to do with the car, and what kind of car we're talking about.

For example, if you had an unrestored 68 L88 but wanted a driver, I'd look for a different car.
If you had a 63 convertible automatic 250 horse low option car and wanted a show car, I'd take it through the judging pathway in the Star / Bowtie program.
If you had the 68 L88 mentioned above and wanted a show car, then absolutely take it through the Star / Bowtie program.

Just my opinion.

[Edward J.]

Re: survivor car versus restoration path

Tony, I would think that someone in your local chapter should be able to help with your decision on which way to go. You could aways enter in your local chapters Flite judging.

[Paul J.]

Re: survivor car versus restoration path

Members....What are some guidelines to distinguish a survivor car (that should be left alone) versus a car that needs a restoration?? Thanks Tony

There are lots of opinions on this, as you will find out if you take Ed's suggestion. You will hear everything from don't touch it ("it's only original once") to "one repaint is OK", to "make it perfect". Ultimately, you will have to form your own opinion. One thing to consider is how to handle a rare and desirable car, like Chris' scenario.

For me, it's condition. Unless a car is kept in a museum (and sometimes even then) it will deteriorate over time with wear and tear. I've seen survivors with little or no paint, or even cracked and horribly deteriorated paint. Like rat rods, these ain't for me, but some people like them and will pay for a completely original car. IMO, there is no reason to have a car that shows poorly. Originality is nice, and if it is so important these cars need to be preserved in a museum. A car is a machine, and all machines eventually need reconditioning.

Paul

[Anthony S.]

Re: survivor car versus restoration path

Folks...these are good comments. Maybe I should clearify and use the term Star / Bowtie path vice survivor since these are different meanings. ONe intent with this question: is to understand what a bowtie is in terms of condition, and when the condition of the car(s) is such that it is too 'deteriorated' that a restoration is needed. That is, Where the condition of the original car is too poor to go thought the star / bowtie judging path successfully. I can understand when restoration is started on the car (in a given category, eg a repaint), then that portion of the car will not make the bowtie grade. Thanks TOny

[Anthony S.]

Re: survivor car versus restoration path

....also, I have herd many opinions on this...and I am trying to develop some guidelines that are more fact and actual experience based than all of these opinions. The goal is to recognize when a car will be a sucessful star / bowtie type car...thanks again...T

[Mike E.]

Re: survivor car versus restoration path

You can attempt bowtie status before you restore a car. You can never attempt bowtie status once you begin restoring it
FWIW

[Roy S.]

Re: survivor car versus restoration path

....also, I have herd many opinions on this...and I am trying to develop some guidelines that are more fact and actual experience based than all of these opinions. The goal is to recognize when a car will be a sucessful star / bowtie type car...thanks again...T

It's only original once, you can’t make it more original the second time around. With that said we encourage anyone to keep their car as original as possible and use the most original parts available any time a repair is completed. that does not make it more original in the pure sense, it might make it appear more original.

[Terry M.]

Re: survivor car versus restoration path

Folks...these are good comments. Maybe I should clearify and use the term Star / Bowtie path vice survivor since these are different meanings. ONe intent with this question: is to understand what a bowtie is in terms of condition, and when the condition of the car(s) is such that it is too 'deteriorated' that a restoration is needed. That is, Where the condition of the original car is too poor to go thought the star / bowtie judging path successfully. I can understand when restoration is started on the car (in a given category, eg a repaint), then that portion of the car will not make the bowtie grade. Thanks TOny

Tony,
Having been a participant is more than a few meetings of Bowtie Judges to determine exactly the question you raise, and having the car in question right in front of us, I can tell you it is rarely a cut and dried decision. Some (maybe even many) cars are borderline in some areas, and the discussion can become, shall we say, animated as those advocating one position or another press their point of view. The only way you will get an answer, other than some obvious situations such as the repaint you cite, is to try to take the car through the Bowtie process and see what the outcome is.

[Tony S.]

Re: survivor car versus restoration path

Tony, good question. I've restored several C2's that were old, tired warriors that needed to be saved. You could name each of them Lazarus cars because each of them had to be brought back from the dead. I appreciate an original car that has been left alone, in fact, I'm quietly looking for a survivor '65 just to keep and enjoy without restoring it. To answer your question, you have to look at each car on a one on one basis. I think the more complete and original, the more likely the car is a candidate to be kept unrestored. Mike Russo in Florida has a beautiful survivor '65 L79 coupe that he'd be crazy to restore because it's basically all there and it's very driveable. I travel to most of the Regionals and National conventions, and I can tell you that the cars that bring the most buzz are the original Bow-Tie candidates and Bow-Tie cars on the field. All the judges gravitate to those cars because we try to find something new about how these cars were built. As they say, they're original only once.

Good luck in your quest.

[Will B.]

Re: survivor car versus restoration path

Help for a newbie yes/no chart...

What types of awards are possible for cars that were damaged enough to not be licensed and driven in their present state?

For example, they could never be bowtie eligible.

[Terry M.]

Re: survivor car versus restoration path

Bowtie cars are not required to be operational. This is because we do not want to force owners to damage the originality by requiring them to make the car operational. There is also no licensing requirement, but you must show proof of ownership. While most folks will use the vehicle registration for that purpose, a title in your name will accomplish the same result. That said, if a large amount (more than 30%) of the paint is missing -- perhaps due to fiberglass damage -- the exterior of the car will fail that portion of the quantitative analysis. So the short answer is -- it depends why it is not operational and not capable of being licensed. You need to be a little more candid with us to get a specific answer. Don't be afraid. We try not to eat newbies around here. Oh and tell us more about the car. Most all of us are eager to see/learn about original Corvettes.