stamp pad general judging questions

[Anthony S.]

I am trying to improve my knowlegde on stamp pad points since this area can be a concern for any owners.
What is the proper way to assign points in these cases:

1) During stamping at the factory, an incorrect number occured and the correct number was stamped over it.
2) a grind-out occurred, and the all of the correct numbers/letters are present
3) a machine shop placed an additional stamping on the pad during some engine work (all factory broach marks and factory stampings are untouched and present)
thanks tony

[Michael W.]

Re: stamp pad general judging questions

Tony-

Cases 1 and 2 would receive no deduction, case 3 would lose the points. The standard is typical of factory production at the point of delivery to the first owner. Cases 1 and 2 are considered typical. When assigning points in your three cases, it's the judging of 'what do we have here?' that is difficult. Recognizing factory restamps and grindouts vs. engine shop work can be tough.

[Anthony S.]

Re: stamp pad general judging questions

Do you know what points deduction should be taken for case 3? (factory pad with factory marks and numbers, but with additional stamp added to pad?) Thanks.

[Rich G.]

Re: stamp pad general judging questions

Michael

Having experience number two in the original post, the caveat would be that the judges have to make a subjective decision as to whether or not the grind out was done at the factory or at some time subsequent to that. That decision can be somewhat informed but is stll subjective. There are pictures and discussions in other threads about this, but only an original owner can know for sure. Others can take very educated guesses, but they are still guesses.

Rich

[Michael W.]

Re: stamp pad general judging questions

Rich-

Agreed on all points but there again, ALL pad judging is subjective guessing given the accuracy of some restamps.

For the OPs follow up question about how to judge some added on characters on a virgin pad where all orignal characters are still visible, I think I would tend NOT to deduct for that, given that the judging rules require some (but not 100%) evidence of a factory pad surface finish, and there is no way to be certain that the additional characters could not have been added prior to first delivery- even though that's unlikely.

Benefit of doubt goes to the owner.

[Kenneth B.]

Re: stamp pad general judging questions

Michael

Having experience number two in the original post, the caveat would be that the judges have to make a subjective decision as to whether or not the grind out was done at the factory or at some time subsequent to that. That decision can be somewhat informed but is stll subjective. There are pictures and discussions in other threads about this, but only an original owner can know for sure. Others can take very educated guesses, but they are still guesses.

Rich

As I found out on another thread at least one person can tell if its a factory stamp or not.

[Mark D.]

Re: stamp pad general judging questions

For all three, if the pad is original, zero deducts. That's how we do it 69 thru 72.

[Rich G.]

Re: stamp pad general judging questions

Mark

In the case of a grind out, how do you determine originality?

[Mark D.]

Re: stamp pad general judging questions

We've seen a lot of grindouts.

[Kenneth B.]

Re: stamp pad general judging questions

We've seen a lot of grindouts.

Mark How do you know that they were done at the factory. We would like to know or is it a secret

[Terry M.]

Re: stamp pad general judging questions

No secret Ken, but it is a matter of experience. Those of us who have seen thousands of pads can tell the factory techniques. It is not the kind of thing even my Irish heritage allows me to put into words, however if I was in the business of taking pad pictures I could put a power point presentation together. Since I don't have many pad pictures, and my power point skills suck ...... well I will leave it to those more talented than me.

Some of us, when we toured Flint Engine when the National was at Warren Michigan in the early 1990s, got a first hand demonstration by the worker who was applying the engine assembly stamps that day. BTW: He thought we were nuts as did the worker at Bowling Green applying the vehicle VIN in the same time period. When I told the BG worker we were studying what he was doing because he was working on high performance cars, his response was: "No high-performance here!" Time has a way of changing one's perspective.

[Michael J.]

Re: stamp pad general judging questions

I watched in BG as my pad was stamped on my 2012 ZR1 LS-9, the engine I built at Wixom. Pretty simple laser etching, today is nothing like the old days. Were they still using gang stamps in the early '90s?

[Kenneth B.]

Re: stamp pad general judging questions

No secret Ken, but it is a matter of experience. Those of us who have seen thousands of pads can tell the factory techniques. It is not the kind of thing even my Irish heritage allows me to put into words, however if I was in the business of taking pad pictures I could put a power point presentation together. Since I don't have many pad pictures, and my power point skills suck ...... well I will leave it to those more talented than me.

Some of us, when we toured Flint Engine when the National was at Warren Michigan in the early 1990s, got a first hand demonstration by the worker who was applying the engine assembly stamps that day. BTW: He thought we were nuts as did the worker at Bowling Green applying the vehicle VIN in the same time period. When I told the BG worker we were studying what he was doing because he was working on high performance cars, his response was: "No high-performance here!" Time has a way of changing one's perspective.

TERRY Do you not think that the people that have been restamping pads do not have as many or more than you or AL do & have been doing this for 25 or more years don't have it down pat.They do this for a living & have 1000's of so called origional stamps. I am sorry but I don't beleave anyone can tell. There were never that many so called factory stamps to judge by. NO one will ever convince me that anyone can be 100% sure if it is origional or a good restamp. I don't know what watching a person stamping pads at BG has to do with 50/60 & 70 Corvette pads in the day or the stamp fonts that were used then.

[Terry M.]

Re: stamp pad general judging questions

I watched in BG as my pad was stamped on my 2012 ZR1 LS-9, the engine I built at Wixom. Pretty simple laser etching, today is nothing like the old days. Were they still using gang stamps in the early '90s?

Yes, the did. I think it changes to the laser process in 1994 or 1995. The real C4 guys will know.

[Terry M.]

Re: stamp pad general judging questions

TERRY Do you not think that the people that have been restamping pads do not have as many or more than you or AL do & have been doing this for 25 or more years don't have it down pat.They do this for a living & have 1000's of so called origional stamps. I am sorry but I don't beleave anyone can tell. There were never that many so called factory stamps to judge by. NO one will ever convince me that anyone can be 100% sure if it is origional or a good restamp. I don't know what watching a person stamping pads at BG has to do with 50/60 & 70 Corvette pads in the day or the stamp fonts that were used then.

Ken, What they did/do at BG has nothing to do with what they did at St Louis, except they did use the same VIN gang stamps in the early (before the laser etcher) BG days. I only quoted the BG worker to make the point that what we regard as holy ground was just another job the the plant workers.

As far as your belief that no one can tell with 100% certainty -- IMO you are certainly entitled to your opinion.