Insomnia and car computers.

[Ken A.]

Re: Insomnia and car computers.

The problem is the fact that a 12 volt system is not adequate for today's modern vehicles with all of their electronics.
All manufacturers are currently exploring a 48 volt system, in fact Mercedes is field testing production vehicles. In addition, all batteries are produced offshore due to current EPA regs. If you don't want to get stranded, then buy a new battery every 3 years. All new cars have at least a constant 30 milliamp draw to maintain clocks & other memories. A battery charge should last a month unless you leave the fob in the car.

[John H.]

Re: Insomnia and car computers.

The problem doesn't get any better as the prices go up, either; Ferrari notified their dealers about five years ago that cars in inventory needed to be driven or charged regularly, as a fully-charged battery in a new Ferrari would be dead in 21 days from ignition-off parasitic draw without being driven or charged.

[Terry M.]

Re: Insomnia and car computers.

The problem is the fact that a 12 volt system is not adequate for today's modern vehicles with all of their electronics.
All manufacturers are currently exploring a 48 volt system, in fact Mercedes is field testing production vehicles. In addition, all batteries are produced offshore due to current EPA regs. If you don't want to get stranded, then buy a new battery every 3 years. All new cars have at least a constant 30 milliamp draw to maintain clocks & other memories. A battery charge should last a month unless you leave the fob in the car.

Ken, You better tell that to East Pen Manufacturing. ALL of their batteries are made in the USA. There are certain organizations that would have us believe ALL X, Y or Z products are made outside the USA because of the evils of government regulations. Reality is something else. BTW: I have a battery made by East Penn in my 2008 Z06. The Delco battery (which I believe was made by Exide) lasted less than three years, but I believe I may have contributed to its demise. And I believe there are other batteries made in the USA, but I am too lazy to look them up.

[Duke W.]

Re: Insomnia and car computers.

Most "house brand" batteries like Costco and Autozone are made by Johnson Controls, and in my experience they are pretty good, but modern cars have a much higher current draw than vintage cars due to alarms and the need to keep various memories refreshed. If my current "in normal service" car has not been driven in a week I charge the battery before the next drive, which is usually planned, and charge the batteries at least monthly if the car is not regularly used.

One thing you can do is disconnect one battery cable with an ammeter in series. If you find the draw is more the 50 ma, the battery should be charged if it sits more than a week at a time or be continuously connnected to a Battery Tender or equivalent. The OEMs assume that the cars they sell are driven daily or nearly so. They don't consider the "collector" who may just drive the car occasionaly, even Ferrari and Porsche, and many cars they sell are "toys" that the owners don't drive regularly. If you just face the facts and accept the above and take proper precautions, you'll be okay. It's just part of life.

The current Autozone (Johnson Contols) 26R battery that I swap back and forth between my MR2 (summer driver) and MBZ 190E 2.6 (winter driver) is now 11 years old, and still apparently at peak performance, but I take good care of it. IIRC it was $39.95 in 2001. The current replacement is nearly double that price.

One thing I've learned over the years is that if you have an old battery that appears to be okay, but inadvertantly discharge it by, for example, leaving the dome light on for a day or two, it might come back with a slow recharge, but it won't last much longer. Young batteries are much more forgiving of such screwups.

BTW, if you peel off the plastic stickers on these generic batteries, you end up with an unobtrusive black blob that most people won't even notice. I hate those garrish "brand" stickers.

Be thankful that you don't own a Tesla that has "bricked". A number of owners have experienced this. If it's not driven regularly and kept connected to an adequate charger the battery pack can discharge to a point where it is no longer recoverable. Replacing the battery pack is about $15,000!!!

Duke

[Terry M.]

Re: Insomnia and car computers.

Be thankful that you don't own a Tesla that has "bricked". A number of owners have experienced this. If it's not driven regularly and kept connected to an adequate charger the battery pack can discharge to a point where it is no longer recoverable. Replacing the battery pack is about $15,000!!!

Duke

To be Captain Obvious:
If you can afford a Tesla, the price of battery replacement will not break the bank.

[Paul J.]

Re: Insomnia and car computers.

I've heard that there are five companies manufacturing automotive starting batteries in the U.S., but I only know of four. Johnson Controls, who not only makes Costco and Autozone batteries as Duke mentioned, but they also make Wal Mart and sometimes Sears batteries. East Penn, who absorbed the business of bankrupt Douglas. And Exide, who still makes some of it's batteries on shore.

The OSHA regulations for battery manufacturers are more restrictive than the EPA rules. In fact, manufacturers used to get their lead and case materials on tolling agreements with recyclers. The manufacturer had to collect old batteries, these were shipped to recyclers who cracked the case, neutralized the acid, pelletized the plastic, and smelted and refined the lead. They then shipped the lead to the manufacturer in either pigs or plates. These recyclers had the most restrictive rules. The manufacturer only melted and cast the lead, and extruded the plastic pellets into cases and assembled the batteries. Most black battery cases are from recycled plastic from old batteries.

East Penn has their own recycling facilites. I don't know if the others do or not. The recycler that I worked with supplied Douglas.

Paul

[Duke W.]

Re: Insomnia and car computers.

To be Captain Obvious:
If you can afford a Tesla, the price of battery replacement will not break the bank.

In my experience the weathy don't like getting ripped off anymore than the poor, so Tesla owners likely aren't too happy about a five figure repair bill on a car that may be as little as a year old.

Most electric/hybrid manufacturers offer a battery warranty of at least seven years, but apparently there is some fine print in the Tesla warranty that says the owner is responsible for keeping the battery pack properly charged.

I read of one case - I think it was in Santa Barbara (commonly known as the trust fund capital of the world) - that the owner moved his Tesla to a storage facility for about six months while work was being done on his house. He had it hooked up to a charger, but on a long extension cord. Apparently the long extension cord had enough resistance that the battery pack didn't receive enough charging current and slowly ran down.

When he went to retrieve the Tesla he could not even get in the door, and, in fact, the wheels were locked. It was completely dead and had to be dragged onto a flatbed and shipped to Tesla's home plant in Northern California. It was actually a Tesla employee who coined the word "bricked" - like "dead as a brick".

At that point Tesla was telling the guy he either had to pay for a new battery pack or remove the vehicle from the Tesla facililty.

I doubt if this guy will ever buy another Tesla or recommend one to his friends, and I wouldn't be surprised if this case turns into a lawsuit.

Duke